Question About Vet School

We at VBB received an interesting letter this last week, asking for opinions on vet school.  We thought it would be most informative to take the questions to our colleagues and get some honest answers.  What you will read in the answers section are responses from real vets, out in practice, out in the "real world", uncut and uncensored.

Hi Vets Behaving Badly!

I absolutely love your blog, it makes me laugh, it makes me cry but all in all it makes me dream of one day walking in your shoes :D

Which leads to my questions: 

1. What did you think of veterinary school? Which one did you go to?

2. Was it worth it? 

3. Would you do it again? The same or differently?

And the best question of all:

4. Would you recommend it?

I am changing careers and have found my passion for animals. So in my hindsight of life, I see where I went wrong and warn people of some nasty pitfalls. 

I am hoping you can do the same for me. Thank you very much.

Responses to these questions:

1. Loved it. Penn. 

2. Yes, would not trade this knowledge for anything. 

3. Yes! Totally would do it again. I love knowing what I know, and building on my knowledge base. 

4. Would recommend the experience to anyone who loves learning about animals & medicine, but would warn them that my recommendation in no way should suggest that the VMD/DVM confers the ability to earn a living wage. That said, I suspect any such degree holder interested in working outside of companion animal practice or even in a nontraditional job (pharm, public health, teaching) can do fine.  I suspect other VBB have very different answers.

Vet school sucked on a daily basis till fourth year. I no longer use the Krebs cycle and not being able to draw the clotting cascade anymore has not impacted my career. Fourth year was fun but long days because of the amount of scut work. It was not worth the debt load that I have, and if I had to do it over again, I would look more closely at PA programs and other human health care fields. Sadly PAs make as much money as vets with half the grad school debt. That said, I love what I do and am at a good place in my career now.

Would I do it again? Yes.   Would I make better decision about how I did it?  Hells yea! The debt load is ridiculous, so you have to really love what you do so tht you are okay living very tightly budgeted for a long time. Also, make sure where you eventually want to live will actually need the kind of vet you want to be when you expect to graduate, the field is completely over-saturated in some areas and finding a good job is going to be hard. I would do this no matter what becasue this is all I have ever wanted, but I am currently trying to encourage my niece to look into other avenues.

What did I think about veterinary school? There wasn't a lot of joy to classes 8 hours a day. It was the necessary thing to get to being a vet. I didn't spend much time thinking about it at all. That said, I wouldn't do it again. I would have been just as happy as a farmer and what I spent on vet school would have allowed me to start out with very littel debt and a nice little farm. I'd still be broke, I'd still be working for myself, I'd still work with animals and I wouldn't have to deal with the public.

Vet school sucked til third year. it was like high school in that you saw the same 100 people all day, ever day-except now 95% of those people are type A women in their early/mid 20's and the added fun of booze being legal really fueled the gossip cycle. Getting into the clinical rotations was more fun, but made for much less sleep and absolute exhaustion-you know you're running your ass off when all you eat every day is a pint of Ben and jerrys once you get home, and you LOSE 10# in 3 weeks.

Was it worth it? I don't know. Today, I'm having a bad day, and I'm going to say no. Some days, I might answer yes. Would I do it again? Nope. I'd stick with public health unless I could get someone else to foot a hefty chunk of the tuition bill for me.

Year one, too many PhDs teaching who'd never examined a patient in their lives, too few DVMs. Years two and three, better, had some great DVM profs; year four, fine, should have had two clinical years instead of one, we wasted way too much time on useless stuff in year one. Way too much gossip and BS from fellow students, several people who should have washed out didn't.   No.

1) A. It was the hardest thing I've done in my life. And like anything, it was what you made it. I had a wonderful time. I most certainly do not miss the workload, and the pressure. But I do miss the people terribly. 

 1) B - LSU
2) For me, it was. It has certainly not been as financially rewarding as I thought. And I do feel that the majority of my colleagues are jerkwads. But I have found enough nuggets amongst my colleagues to make it worthwhile.
3) If I could relive my experience, I'd do it again, warts and all. I would learn a lot more about money a lot earlier. But if I had to do it today, at today's costs, no.
4) Again, with today's costs vs. income, I'd run away. I'd go into exercise equipment or welding or financial planning.

Loved vet school. It was like boot camp, a living hell, pressure/pressure/pressure. I thrived on it and on the camaraderie. I went to UGA and graduated in '85.

I loved vet school. Wish I could have stayed in academia. Looking back though I think I would have chosen another profession.

With the debt I accrued, would I do it again? No. But what else would I do? Since I can't answer that, then yes, I would do it again.

I think I would be way, way smarter with money.

I could've worked in vet school. It would have SUCKED, but I could have done it.

It did suck. I did it. I remember one night of driving home at the end of a shift at the ER (an hour from school) after working all weekend and hallucinating that the white lines on the highway were rabbits jumping at me. And I remember more than once barely making it through an 8AM exam after an overnight shift. But I was young and it didn't occur to me that what I was asking of myself was superhuman.

Year 1&2 sucked and pretty much completely changed me. I did well and love my classmates, but fuck I don't like gossip so I became a loner. Natural extrovert going in, forced to become introvert.

I change my mind daily on if I would do it again. Money wise, hell no. Not sure what I would do instead.

I'd probably do it again if I had to live life over again. Though if I was 22 and considering applying today I'd think twice now because of the money. I can't see how you can escape the crushing debt unless you put your life on hold to pay off the debt, live like a pauper as a degreed professional, or somehow have family money or win the lottery. It's not like you can work and even make a dent in the debt while in school these days.

If it was 1985, yes, I would do it again. Today? If I was bound and determined, I'd join the Army and let Uncle Sam pay for it. VS was a necessary evil. I hated the back-biting (and some of it came from the Interns and Residents). Friday night kegs kept me sane (and I usually wasn't even drinking {much}). UGA rarely gets $$$ from me, but I cover at least 1 keg at Alpha Psi each year.

I had a love/hate relationship with vet school.   I loved parts of it and hated parts of it.  There were a lot of very condescending residents and PhDs who were awful to deal with, and I realized as a fourth year student you aren't really there to learn, you are there to provide support to the DVMs on staff.  I didn't *really* learn to be a vet until I got out into private practice.   But, overall, I enjoyed vet school, despite the stress and pressures of it all.  Would I trade it?   There was never anything else I wanted to do, but now that I know what I know, I'd never go.  The profession is in decline, salaries are dropping and costs are going up, so earning a living as a vet is going to get harder and harder.  I'm just thankful I'm on this side of the fence and not just starting out.   Oh yea - LSU, 2003.

Great Guest Post: From an Intern

So, I’m doing a rotating internship (with mostly emergency responsibility) in a big city.  This might lead you to believe that we see a pretty interesting cross section of the population.  I’m here to tell you that you’re correct. 

Me (seeing a pet for limping): So how long have you had him?

Client: About a month, I guess.

Me: Where did you get him?

Client: From a crackhead, I guess you could say.

Me (pause): So I guess he hasn't had his vaccines, then?

Aside from crazies, this internship has also made me wary of:

1.       Allowing any animal ever to be on a balcony.  Ever.  Dogs and cats, sentient beings though they are, apparently lack the self-preservation instinct necessary to prevent them from launching themselves off a 3^rd floor balcony ON THE DAILY.  Regardless of what the general public feels about cats, their balance, and their ability to land on their feet trauma-free, I have euthanized way too many young, otherwise healthy cats to believe that it will prevent them from horrendous injuries.  Many of these cats start their day curiously observing the world from above and end it with a tearful euthanasia after they have broken their back and are unable to use their hind limbs.

2.       Dog parks: I see about 3-5 dogs bitten by other dogs each week.  Most of the time, the owner of the bitten dog is FURIOUS that they have to quarantine their pet for 6 months…in spite of the fact that they would have had a shorter quarantine period to contend with if their dog was up to date on rabies vaccinations OR no quarantine at all if they had obtained the information of the animal (and its owner) that bit their pet.  You get the information of somebody who rear-ended your car: please do the same when your pet is injured by another pet.

3.       Outdoor cats in general: wounds of unknown origin, being hit by a car, or (my favorite) just not noticing that their cat is even mildly ill ill until it crawls half dead to their back porch as a DKA or a saddle thrombus or with a necrotic limb that was probably injured days ago.

Something that has always scared me (and I wish scared more pet owners) is rat poison.  I think my most rodenticide case very poignantly illustrated that owners often feel that “rat poison” or “mouse poison” either isn’t appetizing to their pets or isn’t dangerous to their pets (it's called, moise poison for a reason, right?  WRONG.):

Me: So how did your dog get to the poison? (IE: why was it even around her at all?)

Client: Well I had wrapped it in peanut butter…

Me: (Pause)  Why…what…is there a reason that you did that?

Client: So the rats would like it better.

Me: (Prolonged pause) Just…so you know: rat poison is often pretty tasty to begin with, so you really shouldn’t ever have it anywhere she should get to.  I just wouldn’t have it in the house at all, honestly.

In this particular situation, she felt very strongly that the amount in the estimate was too much to pay for her pet’s care (read: she couldn’t really afford any care at all).  I, on the other hand, felt very strongly that she should not have WRAPPED AN ALREADY APPETIZING TOXIC SUBSTANCE IN SOMETHING THAT NEARLY EVERY DOG LOVES TO EAT.  Fortunately, we were able to make her vomit what looked like the offending substance within about 20 minutes of ingestion, so I’m not sure the dog even absorbed any, but it was (unfortunately) the neurotoxic variety, which always makes me much more nervous than the often easily treated anticoagulant variety.  I ultimately sent her home with a bottle of activated charcoal (after she asked me if there was a “home remedy” she could try instead), and I emphasized that she needed to come back in if she noteiced any strange behavior/seizures/tremoring.  I never heard from her again, so hopefully that means that she did well.  And hopefully her owner will get rid of the rat poison as I reiterated several times that she should do.

Summary: if it’s your fault that your pet had to go to the ER, please don’t get mad at me when I tell you how much the care she needs will cost- especially when I am pretty darn nice about the pretty darn stupid thing that you did.

whatever bubbles up

Chanukah holiday tips (just save these for next year):

1. No, your cat doesn't know enough not to burn himself on the candles. Also, doesn't know enough not to knock over the chanukkiah. Singed whiskers are not an emergency. Blistered eyelids are an emergency. I'm not sure why clients so often get that backwards.
2. Re: dog, see (1).
3. Fatty food can cause pancreatitis - I'm sure Fluffy DOES love latkes, but don't come crying to me when he has to be in the hospital for a week.
4. Freshly made sufganiyot will be generally well-received by your veterinarian regardless of religious affiliation, btw.

Christmas/winter break tips:

1. Keep pets away from toxic plants.
2. Keep pets away from potentially toxic or obstructive decorations.
3. Yes, even if you think your pet knows better.
4. Boarding is stressful for your pet. If your pet comes home from boarding acting kind of stressed out, this does not mean he was abused in the kennel.
5. There is no vaccine or quarantine practice that is 100% effective at preventing 100% of cases of infectious disease. If your pet comes home from boarding with an infectious disease, that does not mean that the kennel doesn't know what it is doing.
6. If you're giving your vet a fruitcake, please be liberal with the application of alcohol to said fruitcake.

Some random haiku for you:

Anal sac juices
Are the foulest smelling thing
WHY MUST YOU LICK THEM?

Toenail overgrowth
THREE CENTIMETERS ingrown
Pluck that sucker out

That's a nipple, sir.
Yes, male dogs have nipples too.
Don't take off your shirt.

Hairless Sphynx cats
Feel like sweaty penises.
Try to prove me wrong!

December 14th:
Horror. Atrocity. Pain.
Such a tragic waste.

I do hope that last does not seem flip. Fact is, I cannot delve into that topic more than very superficially without completely breaking down. Such a terribly tragic loss for all of those families, and our country, and the world. There really are no words to express the magnitude of the loss or the depth of the grief I feel when I consider it.

And on that note, this particular VBB wishes you a healthy & peaceful year's end, and health & good fortune in the year to come. My colleagues will have to keep you entertained for the next wee bit because I'm GOING ON VACATION!

Know When to Shut Up

At the ER this weekend, we had a case with a family involved. There was a mom, and a dad, and a particularly good little boy.

As we were finishing up, I asked the boy how old he was. He proudly held up four fingers. He added "Then I'll be five, then I'll be six,..." etc. When he got to ten or so, I asked him, without thinking, if he could count up to my age.

The lad looked shocked for a moment, then said "NO!"

I should know better by now.

One lunch special to go please.

They are crawling out of the woodwork today.

My RBB just told me one of our clients phoned and needed to speak to me. Apparently this client was completely irate that when her husband picked up her dog after boarding, the dog was not sent home with a package of our house diet so that she could transition him back to his regular food slowly. No amount of explaining that this was not standard procedure seemed to calm the client down, and the client was apparently insisting on a prescription for the house diet, which the client could take with her elsewhere, because heaven forbid she ever give us one red cent ever again.

I did pick up the phone and call this client, but unfortunately (can you feel the sarcasm??) got voicemail. I left the following message:

Hi, this is Dr. VBB calling about Fluffy. I got a message that you wanted a prescription for our kennel diet. Unfortunately, I can't write a prescription for anything for Fluffy without examining him. We do feed Food X here at VBB Hospital and you are certainly welcome to purchase that from the food vendor of your choice. I wonder if perhaps there was some misunderstanding regarding Fluffy's dietary status, or regarding your request, because no one has ever made this kind of request in the twelve years I've been here at VBB Hospital. Please give me a call back at 1-800-VBB-HOSP if you have additional questions or concerns.

Either the client has no additional questions or concerns, or is not interested in addressing them, or has not gotten the message because we have not heard back.

Update - The Notebook

We remember the story about Mr. Sweets and his owner, a very sweet lady who had advanced Alzheimer's disease, who would rush down with Mr. Sweets if he so much as sneezed, right?  That story was written as much about Mr. Z as it was about Mrs. Z.  That sweet man stood by his wife for YEARS with that horrid disease, keeping her safe and warm and comfortable, maneuvering his way around her deteriorating brain and memory in a manner that required so much love and patience that to this day, I stand back in awe of his abilities.

I talked to Mr. Z last month.  Hadn't heard from him in a little while, and of course, because I hadn't seen Mr. Sweets in a while, I became concerned.  So gave him a ring.

"Hello Mr. Z!  How's it hangin'???"  (cause that's how we'd kid around)

"Oh hello doctor!!  Well, I'm doing well.  Mr. Sweets is doing great!  No problems and he has finally lost some weight!"

Uh oh.  Mr. Sweets lost weight.  I knew what that meant instantly.

"How is Mrs. Z?"   I asked.

"Well, Mrs. Z finally passed last month.  She finally let go of that agonizing body of hers and moved on to the other side."

I got a little choked up, but I held it inside so I could maintain the conversation and not show him how... upset...  I really was.

But after a few minutes, I felt relief.  Relief for Mr. Sweets for finally have a shot at having a healthy body weight and for not having to get *another* physical exam for the third time in a day;  relief for Mrs. Z for not suffering any more after years of living with Alzheimer's;   but most of all, I felt relief for Mr. Z.   He sounded....  happy.  He sounded...  free.   He sounded... relieved. 

He told me once how utterly impossible it was to live with your soul mate and watch them slip into the pit of hell with no memory.  He told me how agonizing it was to look at your wife of 50 years and love her and then have her ask, "Who are you again?"

I understood.  I got it.   It's one of those human condition things, where we survive and we go on.  And Mr. Z is going on.  And not one person on this earth could accuse him of not loving Mrs. Z with every ounce of his soul.

Of course I haven't seen Mr. Sweets since, but that's a good thing.  He's been to the vet's office enough times in the last year to last him...  a lifetime.  But I'm sure he feels relieved too, and is now the caretaker of Mr. Z.

One thing bothered me, though.  When I called Mr. Z, he said...."Oh honey, I forgot...  I thought I had called you and let you know...."   (he hadn't called)

Which sent a shiver down my spine because now I'm worried Mr. Z is slipping without Mrs. Z around.

Mr. Sweets has a very big job ahead of him.  It will be my job to make sure he's around to do it.

No Hope for the Human Race

I've been doing this job for 10 years.  I've seen a lot and few things actually shock me anymore.  But occasionally something happens that makes me stare straight ahead for a few minutes, trying to get my brain around what just came out of the mouth of another being that is supposedly a part of my own species.

I wish I could say it's the usual complaint we all hear, when someone pleads ignorance about giving their dog or cat their rabies vaccine.  They either don't know it's the law or they don't know that they or their pet could die from it or that it's a really, really dangerous disease.  I get that kind of stupidity.

But today... today we got a call that has me scratching my head in both absolute confusion and absolute....  what's the word?  Oh yeah... disbelief at how utterly stupid another human can be.

So little Johnny is an 8 month old Yorkie.  His owner scheduled him this week to be neutered, because he was starting to mark her house (read: piss all over everything she owns because he's now a macho little fucker).  We happily obliged and I neutered him yesterday.

This owner called my staff this morning and screamed at them.  SCREAMED at them.  She had a complaint about the procedure and wanted to make sure we knew she had gotten the worst service EVER from us.

From a simple neuter?  Okay, I'll bite...

She went on to explain that WE TOOK HIS TESTICLES!!!  Her dog went INTO my clinic yesterday with two normal balls and went home WITHOUT HIS BALLS.  She was APPALLED.

Imagine the silence she got on the phone as my super intelligent tech tried to process what was being said to her.

She informed us that 20 years ago when she had her other dog neutered, he kept his testicles.  Never in her life has she had a dog have his testicles removed!

Except....  her other dog was my patient, and guess what?  He was a....  neutered male.  His testicles had been removed, too.

So it made me - for a brief moment - think, "Oh great, the VMB is gonna ding me for not explaining that a neuter means taking the balls out."  I worried about that for a brief moment.

Then I thought...  SCREW THAT.  If my job now entails explaining things like THIS to an owner who has owned dogs previously, who CALLED US and scheduled the neuter surgery - then I'm done with this job.  I cannot be responsible for the complete education of the entire public while they hold no responsibility for their own ignorance and stupidity.

There is no hope for the human race.