Thursday, October 4, 2012

The Incredible Disciplinary Action

WHOO HOO!!!!!!

The Not So Incredible Dr. Pol is on probation- AS ARE THE OTHER VETS IN HIS PRACTICE!

Check it out:

http://www.michigan.gov/documents/lara/lara_dar_042712_388373_7.pdf

Brenda Sue Grettenberger, 69-01-007301 05/26/2012
D.V.M.
Weidman, MI
Probation
Negligence - Incompetence

Eric Mitchell Gaw, D.V.M. 69-01-008005 05/26/2012
Mount Pleasant, MI
Probation
Fine Imposed
Violation of General Duty/Negligence

Jan H. Pol, D.V.M.
Weidman, MI
69-01-003494 05/26/2012
Fine Imposed
Probation
Negligence - Incompetence


A while back, we informed you in our most popular post ever, gentle reader, that Dr. Pol (go ahead and tweet him about this post!) was practicing substandard medicine. His lack of adherence to basic standards of care when it comes to sterile technique, anesthesia monitoring, pain relief and basic modern medicine has finally been addressed. Not by Big Veterinary, mind you. By some brave soul who complained to his state board about his malpractice.

Kudos, brave soul! THANK YOU!!! And thank you, good people of the Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs Bureau of Health Professions!

And the local vet school, proud MSU, sending students out to ride with him? Shame on you. You knew. You HAD to know. Students talk.

That goes twice for Nat Geo. Your staff was informed of the concerns practitioners had with showing this hack as an exemplar of our profession. Wanna know why the not so incredible Dr Pol was picked as the national role model of our noble calling, gentle reader?
His son was a production assistant. Click that last link & you can find him listed under "meet the vets" for some reason. They say he works in the "entertainment industry." Yeah. So, they needed a vet. Look no further! F for effort on that one, Nat Geo. Maybe you wanna tweet them too & tell them how ashamed they should be for promoting this kind of negligent & incompetent "care" for animals!

Here's another example for you. "Humans try to project their pain onto the animals, but they just don't feel it like we would," said Dr. Jan Pol. I can not believe that in 2012, someone is still saying that out loud.Well, he said it in 2011 I guess. Still.

Next time, email us. We'll fix you up right.

UPDATE: looks like National Geographic is choosing to completely LIE and make the false claim that this is all due to an administrative complaint, rather than due to any actual medical mistakes. Take a look at this article! I'm going to quote from that article:

The Michigan Department of Licensing and Regulatory Affairs ruled that Pol’s failure to accurately read the ultrasound, perform a C-section and to maintain any records on Mocha was evidence of negligence, or failure to exercise due care, including negligent delegation to or supervision of employees. It also found that Pol’s conduct failed to conform to minimal standards of acceptable and prevailing practice for the health profession.

And now I'm going to quote National Geographic:
 The recent fine placed on Dr. Pol is due to an administrative complaint, not malpractice or misdiagnosis. He will regularly see patients and within one month have taken a three-day course, lifting the probation.

I bet poor Mocha and her grieving family would take issue with the classification of this issue as an "administrative complaint."

94 comments:

  1. THERE IS A GOD! About bloody time!

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  2. So happy to read this I just whooped loud enough to disturb the neighbours!

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  3. I posted that a while back about Dr. Pol, but I didn't check out the other vets also. Excellent news.
    I wonder if any of the current episodes being aired will affect anything further - will any of it be a violation of probation?

    btw - a question I am curious about - Dr. Brenda stitching the cow's stomach in place without any anesthesia or analgesia - is that acceptable? I know farm animal medicine is different.

    MSU? Well I took a dog to MSU once some years ago. It was not a good experience. Very sloppy. It was only one time of course. I currently go to University of Wisconsin, the contrast couldn't be more striking.

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    1. T,
      I asked some large animal colleagues to either post, or send me a reply to post, addressing your question about analgesia and anesthesia during sx. I can tell you it is absolutely not acceptable.

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    2. You are absolutely right, it's REALLY not cool. I'm a large animal veterinarian and I certainly use analgesia and anesthesia. If an owner or farmer wants to proceed without, don't call me or my friends. Also, definitely don't then whine to the AVMA that there's a shortage of large animal veterinarians when in actuality you've worn them all down and driven them out of your region.

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    3. I'm glad to hear that. I know that practices differ with large animals somewhat, but I was hoping not THAT much. She wasn't just suturing skin, she was actually suturing the stomach in place through the skin, if I am interpreting what I saw correctly.
      Since you're being kind enough to answer my questions, I was also curious about the practice of banding calves to castrate them. With a brief search, I found a Canadian government website which seemed to indicate that this was acceptable practice, and had both advantages and disadvantages to a surgical approach. Is that the same in the US?
      TAM

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    4. Yeah, people do that, but usually not veterinarians.

      The laws governing "animal husbandry" vs. "practice of veterinary medicine" differ state to state. If it falls under the category of "animal husbandry", the owner/farmer can perform the procedure or, in many cases, hire someone who is not a veterinarian to do so. Why? Profit margins. There was a research paper in JAVMA a few years ago comparing the cost vs. success rate of LDA surgery (IIRC) of veterinarian vs. experienced herd manager. Veterinarians lost, though there was some argument over the number crunching. At best it was a draw.

      If people don't value the services veterinarians provide, they won't pay for them. We can't make them, but they also can't make us practice in an area that won't allow us to earn a living wage. They also can't force us to lower our standards, but this can be a difficult and even losing battle for those who want to stay in business.

      In my experience, when people don't value our services, no amount of education will change this mindset. This disturbs me profoundly, because I used to believe otherwise, but I've seen it again and again. They'd rather spend $500 on joint supplements than $250 on a farm call and a basic lameness exam. They'll call me four times, discuss options in detail (no charge), then follow the farrier's advice or purchase something OTC at the feed store or request a prescription without my having examined the animal because they've figured out what's wrong from an internet chat board and they want to try the miracle cure first before resorting to calling a veterinarian. Amazing. This is why Pol's TV show is so damaging, BTW: it lowers the credibility of modern large animal veterinarians still further.

      Check out your state's veterinary practice code. Most are available online. I bet you'll be surprised what's legal and what isn't.

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    5. I don't remember anything specific about castration methods in our veterinary practice act but I'll look again. Interestingly, from a 2010 study, apparently some (though not many) veterinarians do use that method.

      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2841153/

      Also interesting in that study "One in five practitioners report using an analgesic or local anesthetic at the time of castration"

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    6. This doesn't surprise me. Of course, it's yet another reason fewer and fewer young veterinarians are willing to enter food animal practice. Farmers are willing to do this stuff themselves. To them, it's a good business decision. Veterinarians can't compete, and many of us don't want to compete.

      There's a horse trainer in my region who hogties his yearling horses and castrates them himself with a pocket knife. Over the years, he's probably done thousands, many more than I have. His long-term outcomes are good, probably because he's fast, and those that don't turn out so well he probably shoots. He buys his injectable penicillin at the grain store. It's perfectly legal. Why hire a veterinarian when surgery by a reputable veterinarian is $400+ and you're selling those yearlings for $250?

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    7. I've seen ranchers castrate cattle. That study I linked though, 4 of 5 veterinarians were not using analgesia. While I don't know a lot about farm animal medicine, I do understand it's (somewhat) different.
      It is frustrating to hear about examples like your horse trainer. He's probably technically competant I suppose. But humane? And true, you probably don't hear about the bad outcomes. What's the answer there? I don't know. From an economic viewpoint, I see the problem. But that doesn't make it ok.

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    8. Yeah, I was being rhetorical: it's not okay. Not on a horse, not on a bull calf. The laws are different vs. dogs and cats only because the farming lobby is powerful and doesn't want to lose any portion of its profit margin to humane care. Am I an animal rights nut? Nope, but I can see both sides here, and farmers who are purely profit-motivated do not.

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    9. When I was growing up my family managed many head of cattle which is where I learned how to castrate calves. Did I castrate my own kid goats recently? Yes. Is it the 100% most humane method? Probably not. But, they were 1-2 weeks old and after three days they barely had a scab. They had minimal trauma, the procedure is extremely quick, and being that young with small testicles to remove they heal quickly. Yes, it comes down to cost for me. The cost to have them castrated, at this young age, by a vet will either be the same or more than what I will get in selling the animal.

      Do I castrate my own dogs and cats? No, that is more complicated and needs to be done by my vet, even at a young age. Did I castrate the older kid goats I got late in the spring? No, they were too developed with too much vasculation in that region. If I had kept one just to keep, I would have taken him to my vet for him to do handle the potential complications that could come with testicles and a scrotum of that size. I've called my vets after hours for situations I didn't think needed to wait until the morning. After a converation I follow their recommendations, whether that is to bring the animal in or not. There's some common sense that has to go into this as an animal owner and the relationship you have with your vet.

      I value my vets' skills and the education they have. We have a good relationship and we have an understanding. For me the relationship is a bigger key than any other thing.

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    10. Having removed testicles from many species, I disagree: IMO cat castrations are the easiest castrations, technically.

      It's absolutely true every client must decide those services for which they're willing to pay a veterinarian. In your situation, it's reasonably safe and definitely legal to castrate baby goats yourself. It follows that you have the option of doing what you think is best, however, you'll never convince me this is a humane practice. As you said yourself, it comes down to cost.

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    11. I've watched plenty of cat castrations. It is very simple. I'm sure Jenna could easily teach me in a day, and I could do it just fine. Until something went wrong. Which is probably why it's not legal (at least not in the states I know of)
      The technical aspects of castration, I'm sure people can learn. Doing it without analgesia - I just can't stand the thought. Ask any man, and I think he'd say that would have to hurt.
      I do understand, however, that it's a problem if the cost of the vet is more than the cost of the animal - farmers, like anyone else, can't operate at a loss.

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    12. http://www.aabp.org/public/Animal_Welfare/AABP-Prin_An_Welfare-6.2011.pdf

      These are the Animal Welfare Principles adopted and maintained by the American Association of Bovine Practitioners (AABP). Specifically mentions surgery in principle 4.

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    13. And here is the AVMA Policy on Dehorning and Castration of Cattle
      https://www.avma.org/KB/Policies/Pages/Castration-and-Dehorning-of-Cattle.aspx?PF=1

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    14. The problem of cost, T, isn't solely a problem with veterinarians' high prices. Veterinarians who attempt to advocate for animals are not the bad guys here (I know you know this :-). We're not financial planners, and we are not responsible for designing viable business plans for our clients. Ask, why the heck is that do-it-yourself-castration trainer breeding horses he can't sell for more than three figures? Why don't small ruminant breeders raise their prices for meat or milk, cut costs elsewhere, put together a different business plan, or accept that it's a hobby and take the loss? The same goes for swine and cattle operations and probably for poultry, too (not my area of expertise). It applies to those racehorse trainers and owners who prefer to leave racetrack veterinarians basically shooting in the dark rather than pay for proper examinations and diagnostics. Finally, it applies to dog breeders who do not budget for emergency c-sections and other catastrophes then attempt to lay the whole disaster at the feet of the poor veterinary soul on duty at the emergency clinic.

      The truth is, it's a matter of priorities for the farmers and owners paying the bills. As for the veterinarians, not only do we need to pay our own bills and run our practices as profitable businesses, most of us need to feel that our work is ethical and humane.

      Take home: if you call me out to perform a painful procedure on your animal, I'm gonna give him the appropriate good drugs. Otherwise, I'm gonna end up taking those drugs at some point when I can't look at myself in the mirror anymore. As for whatever my clients do to their own animals, contrary to my advice, I'm here to pick up the pieces. If what you've done has made me too angry to be an effective veterinarian for your animal, I will send you to the local veterinary school hospital, where you, the owner, will be a teaching case for the students.

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    15. Some more references about castration sent to me by a large animal practiioner

      A Survey of Castration Methods and Associated Livestock Management Practices Performed by Bovine Veterinarians in the US
      https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/?ui=2&ik=b50b741d85&view=att&th=13a3342d0d81549b&attid=0.1&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P9oM3NQK0yqsonVEB0x_P2m&sadet=1349484258483&sads=k4RPwYyknLUopLpFaJxpS_VW85c&sadssc=1

      Factors Affecting Canadian Veterinarians' Use of Analgesics When Dehorning
      https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/?ui=2&ik=b50b741d85&view=att&th=13a3342d0d81549b&attid=0.2&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P9oM3NQK0yqsonVEB0x_P2m&sadet=1349486903569&sads=xdA9rXJQk1e013LxYxS_4oOjLi8

      Analgesic Drug Administration and Attitudes About Analgesia in Cattle Among Bovine Practitioners in the US
      https://mail-attachment.googleusercontent.com/attachment/?ui=2&ik=b50b741d85&view=att&th=13a3342d0d81549b&attid=0.3&disp=inline&safe=1&zw&saduie=AG9B_P9oM3NQK0yqsonVEB0x_P2m&sadet=1349486974715&sads=LxsO43OJGpuJflcS5AhTREK6Nb0

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    16. i will admit that I've banded my own goats when they were very young, but I also do a testicular block on them then. I also have a goat that was banded by a lay person, and they somehow missed both testicles, in effect removing his scrotum. I had to anesthetize him and "re-castrate" him. I would never castrate a fully grown goat without full sedation and local analgesia.

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    17. Lots of interesting reading, thank you.
      Jenna, of course the problem isn't the vets 'high prices'. Everyone wants to get paid for their work, in fact needs to. I presume nsaids and such would be expensive for large animals as well, and it sounds like not many are approved for cattle (I need to read a few more links, but that's what I saw).
      I wondered, ok, so if the farmer just raised his price for an animal to cover the cost of the vet doing the castration... but then no one would buy HIS animal, as everyone else's would be cheaper. Probably requires a change in the law.
      Your horse trainer fellow sounds to me almost like horse equivalent of a puppy mill.
      I've bred one litter of dogs. From a champion, with all the appropriate health checks. And yes, I got the emergency c-section. Absolutely, if you're going to breed anything, you need to have some money set aside, in case. I understand that raising farm animals is a business, but they are living things, not plants. It needs to be humane imo.
      I completely understand what you say about looking at yourself in the mirror. I've seen a few things at vets I wish I could 'un-see' and certainly understand why you want to practice in such a way as to minimize and relieve suffering. Good for you.

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    18. Just suppose every farmer raised prices for meat. That would probably result in the discontinuation of 99-cent menus at fast food restaurants. Then again, cheap meat isn't necessarily good for those who purchase and consume it in excess. It's a complex problem when you start to think about the cascade of unintended consequences, and that's why I don't think the industry is going to change anytime soon.

      Good for you for engaging in responsible breeding. I much prefer good dog breeders to bad "rescues", but, another rant, another day. :-)

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  4. Are the details available? How do you know who complained?

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    1. Here are the details courtesy of DVM360

      http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/dvm/Veterinary+news/Dr-Pol-reality-TV-veterinarian-fined-and-placed-on/ArticleStandard/Article/detail/791615?contextCategoryId=378

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    2. Oh. My. God.

      10 dead puppies, and thank goodness the bitch lived. I hope.

      That's the same situation I had with my one litter - except we went in, had an immediate c-section, and everything lived, except the one puppy who had died in there initially, causing the discharge.

      People reading who defend Dr. Pol - that's the difference.

      I wonder if the other vets at the practice were disciplined for that same case, or others. hmmm...

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  5. Interesting, I looked at their website http://polveterinaryservices.vetstreet.com/

    Dr. Gaw is a MSU grad, and has only apparently only been in practice for 2 years. You'd think he, at least, would have known better. And what exactly is 'violation of general duty'.

    Pardon my passion on the matter, I have been unfortunate enough to have seen some of this type of care in person.

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    1. I think he's worked at the practice for 2 years, but I'm not certain how long he's been in practice. Will look it up in the AVMA directory if I have time later. :-)

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    2. It says "years in practice" but of course you may be right, they may be just meaning years worked there. There is one more vet there also, Sandra Wisniewski - it says "years in practice" 1, from Iowa State.

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    3. Okay, when I looked up these two by name on the Michigan board website ("verify a license"), I found:

      Dr. Gaw has been licensed since 1997
      Dr. Wisniewski has been licensed since 2012

      Egads. I feel for the new grad, but recall the post on VBB last week explaining that the job market is truly horrific. She's employed. Let's hope she's also keeping her resume current.

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    4. You are right - Eric Gaw was licensed in Michigan in 1997. Sandra Wisniewski was just licensed in Michigan this past May. I haven't found anything else about here. Poor lady must have started at the practice right when everything hit the fan.

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    5. Oops, sorry, I posted before I saw yours. Well, perhaps Dr. Wisniewski can raise the standard of practice there, one can only hope.

      My comment landed in the wrong place before, oops.

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    6. If Dr. Sandra started as everything hit the fan...does that explain why she doesn't do any talking to the camera anymore?

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  6. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  7. "Humans try to project their pain onto the animals, but they just don't feel it like we would" is idiocy. I mean, have you ever accidentally stepped on your dog's tail? Did he yelp? Do you really think that yelp meant, "Oooh, that felt good! Can you step on my tail again, please?" Or is it more likely that the yelp meant, "Oww! That really hurt! Watch where you're going, you stupid human!"

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  8. What goes around comes around. I hope Pol is stripped of his license.

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  9. Dr. Pol has been our family's vet for decades. Horses, cats, dogs and more. We've never had a problem with any of our animals as a direct result of his actions/treatment or his staff's. I can not say the same thing about Michigan State. I know a lot of people in the central Michigan area that would trust Dr. Pol with their own lives.

    What I see here are a bunch of people of people patting themselves on the back over a vet they've only seen for a few hours on television. See the man work in person when your own animal's life is on the line, then form an opinion.

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    1. Even if you do things wrong, or not ideally, it doesn't turn out badly every time. It just turns out badly more often than if you do it right. And many people cannot tell if their animal doesn't have sufficient pain medication. They think they can, but it is not necessarily simple, even for vets. So while I am very glad your animals apparently did ok, that honestly doesn't prove anything about Dr. Pol's care.
      Also people trust vets or not based upon their perceptions, which aren't necessarily based upon the medical/veterinary knowledge that they'd need to accurately assess that vets skill. Often, it's based on the vets personality.
      I don't think anyone is patting themself on the back. What this is about is not just Dr. Pol. It's about the fact that this sort of extremely backwards veterinary medicine is being portrayed on TV as a good thing - and will lead more people to think that this sort of care is ok.
      It's not ok.
      We watch on tv animals die, that perhaps didn't need to. We watch animals apparently suffer, that didn't need to. We watch practices that are so outdated as to be, as the board said, negligence and incompetance.
      If we see that, just on the little parts that the TV shows, how much else must there be?
      Vets don't get disciplined that often - a vet has to do something pretty bad to get a significant discipline. 3 vets in that practice were disciplined. Did you read the article about why? 10 dead puppies, and the mother's life certainly at risk.
      So it's not patting on the back, I think that it's great relief that there is some sort of public statement that all vets, by statute, need to practice modern veterinary medicine, with a reasonable standard of care. And I hope that the public will recognize this.

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    2. I've been waiting for this for awhile now-i just watched an episode where he did a lipoma removal on a dachshund under injectable anesthesia ONLY. no intubation, not anesthesia machine, no STERILIZED INSTRUMENTS... nothing! it's backwards. it's wrong. it is archaic. it's UNNECESSARY. i've been a veterinary technician for 10 years, and i've worked with a few 'old school' vets... but EVERY ONE of our patients having a surgical procedure was INTUBATED and placed on GAS ANESTHESIA. the things he was doing were NOT OK. they are so outdated it's ridiculous. he even stated himself that ANIMALS DIN'T PERCEIVE PAIN LIKE HUMANS DO...really? because i'm fairly certain they DO. I hope he has his license removed for the sake of any pets that go to his office in the future. that, or he REALLY needs to reconsider his methods. veterinary medicine has advanced and changed and become practically parallel to human medicine nowadays- and he is still working in the dark ages.

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  10. I noticed National Geographic's comments - administrative complaint my ***. I cannot imagine what Mocha's owners think of that.
    I hope that recent dog Blackie, or that poor pup mauled by the pit bull in the first season, will see some of this and file their own complaint.
    Must it be the owner? Could another vet have seen enough on TV to file a complaint? Non-sterile technique, slinging dogs into cages by their legs, etc - some of that has nothing to do with TV editing, it is what it is.

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    1. Yes, T, in most states it actually has to be the owner of the animal that files the complaint.

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    2. Interesting. Not all states. I wonder about Michigan, I should try to look that up.

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    3. Well the Michigan board website says nothing about it having to be an owner or actual patient, it just says "Anyone can file an allegation against a licensed or regulated health care professional. However, all allegations must be in writing and must include the complainant's correct name and address."
      Of course, that doesn't mean they would actually accept the allegation. I'm not a veterinarian, or I'd be tempted to give it a try.
      I know board complaints need specific names and dates, but if it's on film... They can ask other persons... for example, it would be known what date the film on the dog "Blackie" died. And for all of those owners to be shown on TV, Nat Geo would probably have to have signed releases.
      Probably won't happen, but I wish.

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    4. No, it won't happen.

      Just suppose that a group of veterinarians went on the record and wrote a letter to the Michigan board, citing the television show as evidence. One of the first things the board would have to do in the course of its investigation is contact the owners of those animals. They'd ask what happened, but they'd have to be very careful in phrasing their questions. If the board even intimated that anything Dr. Pol had done might be considered malpractice, Dr. Pol could have grounds to sue the board for slander. What would you do if you were Dr. Pol, and one of those owners decided to sue you for malpractice subsequent to a board investigation?

      Honestly, I think the best course of action isn't to put this guy out of business, but to put the television show out of business. National Geographic Wild is supposed to produce entertainment, and they just might listen to sustained bad publicity.

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    5. It probably won't. I understand.
      If a board gets a complaint from someone who's not the owner, I believe they first get the records at the clinic. And look around for any pertinant evidence. Then they will contact the owners of the pets etc. So I'm not sure how the board could be successfully sued for slander.
      It's interesting, I doubt there's ever been evidence on TV before.
      As hard as it is for an owner to complain, it's probably even harder for a vet.

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  11. Sorry, I should have said - I agree 100% with you about National Geographic. Perhaps everywhere that show is discussed, DVDs are sold, etc. all of us who feel this way should comment and write reviews.

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  12. Related to this: I posted the link to the DVM360 article on the Incredible Dr. Pol Facebook page, twice. Now I'm blocked. I've seen other negative comments removed as well. Hope you give your PR intern a nice bonus, National Geographic Wild.

    Another effective course of action might be to contact the advertisers who sponsor the show.

    I watched one of the new season's episodes (mistake). Did he really hold the scalpel blade in his mouth during that bare-handed equine castration? Ugh. I made a list of everything I do differently: surgical gloves, local anesthesia of testicles, towel covering eyes/cushioning facial nerve, second person on head/monitoring anesthesia. Maybe that was a sterile surgical pack sitting in between the bucket and the horse's hind legs, but did I see the handles of the emasculators resting against the down leg? I'll give Pol the benefit of the doubt on that. Cost differential = gloves + lidocaine + towel. Charles should have been on the head; I've had to work with worse.

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  13. Finally watched the show.
    I started a petition at Change.org to get National Geographic to cancel the show.
    If you would like to do something to stop this, please go sign the petition.
    Please tell other people to go sign it.
    Let's get this show off the air.

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  14. I've made some comments. Sites like Amazon are more neutral re. comments - we can look for places that the DVDs are sold. Also, where independant reviews and discussions are.
    I will certainly go look for that petition.

    I have all the shows saved on my DVR, sometime I intended to go back through and make a list of what I can see that is inappropriate. Even as a non-vet, there is plenty.

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  15. @T Thank you. Here's the link
    http://www.change.org/petitions/national-geographic-cancel-the-incredible-dr-pol?share_id=aibgEUjUai&utm_campaign=petition_creator_email&utm_medium=email&utm_source=share_petition&utm_source=guides&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=petition_created_email

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  16. Here's a more useful link
    http://tinyurl.com/9jcp6ht
    Please consider posting to your Facebook page, sending via tweet.
    Let's shut this show down before more animals get hurt.

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  17. Done and done.
    You're getting lots of signatures, what happens next?

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  18. Now we get as many people as possible to sign the petition, and get it into the media. Every time someone signs the petition an email goes to six National Geographic personnel. The more people that sign, the more National Geographic realizes they are losing the confidence and trust of their viewers.

    To me it's important to focus on the fact that the state board judged all three of the vets in the practice negligent and incompetent. This is what NatGeo is promoting, and it huts animals and their owners. This is something the public is unaware of- but we can tell them about it via this petition.

    Like Dr Pol I live and practice in a rural area with low incomes. Unlike Dr Pol I have not trained my clients to accept substandard care. We do not have to let the public remain unaware of the fact that National Geograohic is promoting veterinarians who have been judged negligent, incompetent and guilty of providing care below the acceptable standard within their own community.

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  19. Just in case the people that are reading this blog don't realize, Dr. Eden Myers is a bad ass. She cannot only juggle practicing medicine (and is a great person for consulting cases with), she complies data and writes amazing articles. And I hear she can treat unicorns too. Just kidding: she sits for the boards of magical animals next year, so for now she cannot claim meta-veterinary status. But she is amazing. Watch for more from her you guys!

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  20. It's sad that some of us study to keep current & try to incorporate the most up to date medicine into our practice, while this guy is stuck in a time warp 50 years ago.....the clients really are unaware of what's best for the pet there.

    This is another reason why I'm grumpy.

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  21. @SHMDVM, um...thanks. I don't juggle very well. And my track record with unicorns is miserable- you wanna talk about bad ass, you do NOT want to mess with those things.

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  22. Seriously, thank you Eden for having the courage to do this publicly. And all the other vets who are are also speaking out publicly.
    I hope that clients realize that vets don't do this lightly - it has to be pretty bad.
    I commented to a vet friend of mine that I didn't mind watching James Heriot - but it was a bit upsetting to watch a current show and it looked the same!

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  23. The puppy that was mauled by a dog in the first season.. That was horrible. I was not surprised when the puppy died, he did NOTHING to help it.
    But I like Dr. Pol. I know he's a bad vet, but I also know why I like him.. It's like he's an American James Herriot. He harkens back to the old days, and he reminds me of my own family vet (R.I.P, Doc, 4 generations of my families animals treated). Who I might add would castrate cats with a shot of ketamine, and do them on the table, right there. He didn't even shave the balls, just plucked them with the scalpel and thumb, and cut them right there. Took all of 5 minutes, and he didn't suture and you walked out the door with your balless drugged cat.
    Like Dr. Pol, he was working with a bunch of people that wanted to put as little out for their animals care as possible. Sometimes these people didn't care, sometimes they just couldn't afford it. People in farming communities and inner cities often have this one thing in common.. Not a lot of extra money floating around. Not that I'm excusing it, I just understand it, and I understand how this back and forth negotiation with the clients over animal care can result in a lowering of your own standards, just to get SOME kind of vet treatment. I've seen it happen in my family vet's.

    As an aside, I long told my kids that I bet he got the show because of his son, who came back home from L.A. on the second or third episode.. I said then, I bet his son set something up with this show. It's nice to be right, lol.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Many people find Dr. Pol to be a likable guy. As for James Herriot, I think he might find much of what I've seen on the show familiar, and I don't think he'd be impressed because he was practicing in the 1930s.

      Re: cat neuters - I hope your vet used ketamine/valium or some other combo, not straight ketamine (yikes). I've used IV ketamine/valium myself. I don't usually shave because cats seem more likely to lick as a result of razor burn, but I do pluck the hair and scrub, then surgical glove. I've been taught various techniques but settled on the rip 'n' tie method, for lack of a better description. I don't suture, and I don't know if I've ever seen anyone suture (small animal veterinarians???). Surgical time = 5 minutes. It's been years since I last neutered a cat, so I'd ask one of my small animal friends if what I'm doing is still acceptable before proceeding.

      Another problem with Dr. Pol's show is I've seen him do things that are of questionable utility, thus wasting the client's limited funds. To give one example, in the case of that poor puppy, if a client has no funds and the injuries are grave, euthanasia would be an acceptable option. Leaving a puppy in a cage to die is not acceptable, and if he charged the client for the corticosteroids, in addition to being cruel, he wasted her money.

      There's cheap, common-sense medicine that is good and reasonable, and then there's substandard medicine that only appears to be cheap unless you consider it's also useless.

      Delete
  24. "There's cheap, common-sense medicine that is good and reasonable, and then there's substandard medicine that only appears to be cheap unless you consider it's also useless."

    "People in farming communities and inner cities often have this one thing in common.. Not a lot of extra money floating around. "

    These two statements are exactly why I am involved. I practice in an area that has unemployment in double digits- and has for decades. The median income in some counties doesn't crack $20,000 a year.

    I have a cat in the hosp now recovering from acute kidney injury, anemia, hepatitis and hyperglycemia secondary to flea infestation and likely blood borne infectious agent disease. Owners make $24,000 a year. IV fluids, nutritional support, empiric antibiotic therapy, antiemetics, treatment for ulcers presumed present secondary to uremia, blood chemistry and blood cell monitoring, urinalysis, frequent reassessment, nursing care...for four days his total bill will be less than $600.

    Cheap and poor are different. One's ok, one is only ok if that's what the client wants- and there's a level below which it isn't ok.

    The board decreed ALL THREE vets at the practice on this show were practicing below that level. That has nothing to do with poor. The show tells the nation otherwise. We need to set the record straight.

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  25. There is a lot of good to be said for Dr Pol and his treating farm animals. Dr Pol has been helping animals get well for 41 years and he's treated thousands of animals on farms where poor people live and try their best to raise these animals and make a living. Some say Dr Pol's treatments are not sanitary, and he doesn't wear a mask or gloves, but I've seen him many times put the gloves on before handling a very sick animal. Dr Pol knows how to treat many problems that face large farm animals such as cows, horses, and so on, and he knows a lot more on how to fix these problems than most so called modern day vets. Dr Pol has forgotten more than most new up and coming Vets know, he's had hands on experience helping farm animals longer than most of todays Vets have been on this planet and he does a fantastic job of helping these animals. Granted he doesn't pull up to the barn thats in the mud, and slop with a modern day ambulance loaded with high tech medical gear, he doesn't have a mobile MRI unit or CAT scanning machine on hand but he gets in there in all the slop, and mud etc, and rolls up his sleeves and treats a suffering cow, or sheep or goat, or whatever needs fixing. The Vets where I live won't even give you the time of day unless you have your cash in hand, and it costs over $40 for the Vet to say "hello, what seems to be the problem with fido today? I've read dozens of posts saying that Dr Pol uses inhumane treatment and he shouldn't be allowed to practice, but let me just say this, if it were your cow laying in the barn with a dead calf inside of her and Dr Pol removed it and saved your cow, you certainly would not be saying that the TV show needs to be removed. What needs to be removed is the programs on National Geographic that graphically show animals attacking other animals, and chewing them up on camera while they are still alive. Or I like when I tune in and right in front of me I have to watch a couple of bears having sex, thats really entertaining. Or I get to see how a killer whale sneaks up on a baby seal, grabs it and throws it around for about 10 minutes before he chews it to shreds. Nature does these things but we don't need it thrown into our living room for our children to watch. I like Dr Pol's show he's down to earth, and he gets the job done without charging a farmer hundreds if not thousands of dollars for his service. If you want to petition something petition how Nat Geo films animals being ripped apart and watching them scream, and die on camera, this is where poor practice and lack of compassion for an animal comes in. That photographer filming the Kangaroo baby taking its last breath because it found no water, could have easily helped it and gave it to drink instead of filming it suffer and gasp its dying breath. Petition that, don't pick on a man who has been saving animals for 41 years. The way some of you people act and talk you make this Veterinarian look like some sort of butcher. I realize that you're saying all medical people who treat animals need to put gloves on to examine them, and they should have the utmost in sanitary conditions, and I agree on that, but there are times when you might have to act to save a life and a box of gloves is not handy. Some times it looks to me like a really old fashioned way to fix a problem but Dr Pol uses old school medicine mostly, and he uses common sense, compassion, and a willingness to help and heal these animals. I'm all for a continuation of the Dr Pol TV shows, I enjoy him, I think he really has a big heart for these critters and I hope they keep him on National Geographic, and get rid of some of those nasty graphic disturbing shows they put on that can traumatize little kids when they see it. I for one will not sign your petition, I will create a Blog on the good things Dr Pol does and not put the man down the way some of you goody two shoe, one bullet barney wanna be's do.

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    1. >>Dr Pol knows how to treat many problems that face large farm animals such as cows, horses, and so on, and he knows a lot more on how to fix these problems than most so called modern day vets.>>

      Large animal veterinarian here, out "in the slop" on a daily basis, and from what I've seen Dr. Pol is a terrible equine veterinarian, really horrifying. If possible I find the dangerous, inhumane and medically questionable methods he utilizes in treating horses to be even more upsetting than the small animal cases, because it's what I've done every day for more than a decade. A number of those food animal cases were none too pretty, either.

      The more you know, the worse it is.

      Delete
    2. " Dr Pol has forgotten more than most new up and coming Vets know" How is that a compliment?

      Delete
  26. I'm sorry, but you are the example of people who just do not understand the difference. So ok, don't sign it. Many people are.
    We believe that some animals are suffering and dying needlessly under his care. Not because they need an MRI, or more money spent - just basic correct care.
    Would you want to take your child to a doctor, who practices "old school" (whatever that is really) rather than current modern medicine? Old school just seems to mean, didn't keep current as a vet is required to do, and benefit from advances in medicine. That is not something to be admired.
    As far as National Geographic and the animal shows - it's nature. Nature can be brutal. I change the channel on some myself, because I don't care to watch. But if it upsets you, sure, let them know. But those shows upset someone in the moment - the Dr. Pol show does real damage to the perception of what veterinary medicine should be, I believe.

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  27. Eden, I was wondering. Especially if you are starting a website about the show, do you think the vets might get together and describe for the various cases what is inappropriate about the care, what harm came to the animal (death? suffering?), what should have been done instead, and if it would cost significantly more? There are so many of the public who seem to not understand what the problem is with what he's doing, and think it is about money. Maybe a bunch of actual examples?
    I have all the episodes on my DVR, and I'm sure I could figure out some of it, but I am not a vet of course.

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  28. T,
    I am sort of working on that. Let me explain, and by doing so, address Nicholas' comment.

    I agree with Nicholas. You are glad to get whatever you can if it's a life or death situation - and one where you're going to lose a sizable investment if a cow dies, or if the bill is high. Dr Pol is a man to be respected, and he has done a tremendous amount of good for his clients and their animals over the decades he has been in practice. He obviously cares for his clients, patients and staff. He has been there when they needed him, and come when they called, day and day out, for forty years. If I recall we gave Lou Gehrig an award for that, didn't we?

    And I agree with Nicholas that we don't know what happens when we aren't there; we only know what National Geographic chooses to show us.
    That's my point. National Geographic *could* have chosen a practice without ongoing, active board complaints. It is an undeniable fact that all three vets in the practice they chose to feature were sanctioned by the state board, and according to public record haven't gotten additional education as the Board ordered them to do to get off probation.

    National Geographic *could* choose to show the times Dr Pol wears gloves, offers referral, consults with colleagues, documents owner conversations, uses advanced technology...but instead National Geographic is choosing to show almost exclusively instances of care that are clearly in violation of Michigan VMA Recommended Minimum Standards.

    This does a disservice to all the animal owners who then think, Well, that's the best a vet can do. It may be the best that clients of Dr Pol's wanted to pay for- which is none of my business. Literally. That is between the vet and the client and the state board. I have no place to criticise anything other than what I see.

    But that's plenty.

    What I am working on, T, is a side by side guide pointing out those instances where what National Geographic shows us is substandard, based on the Michigan state recommended minimum standards. The standards are available on line, so I can put in a link to them so people can read the full text of the standards for themselves. Reading the letter the MVMA's lawyer sent, it seems anyone who can document a violation can submit a complaint form; since those forms and the instructions for them are on the web, I will include a link to those documents as well so people can submit a complaint.

    If anyone would like to further the cause by lending website or graphic design talents, please let me know and I'll get you hooked right up working on the webpage !

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  29. Sorry, I wish I had the website skills. I am, however, pretty good at writing text and organizing information, if I can help with that, I would be happy to help.

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  30. Is anyone truly surprised that National Geographic has a show like this? Now, I don't have cable, so I could be remembering incorrectly... but isn't this the same station that shows Caesar Milan, Professional Dog-Kicker?

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  31. Thinking the show would last as long as the general public's taste for green beer, they put together an outline and started performing completely improvised wakes for dear departed Flanagan
    Dog Boarding San Francisco

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  32. Slamming Dr. Pol, are you? Let's look at this then. All of Dr. Pol's "accusers" here are so highly (young) "educated" Vets, experts in their jealous field, huh? Dr. Pol is so bad at what he does he deserves your crass slams all over the internet? And...he's just not doing it the way your "newer education" says he should, is he? He's "hurting animals" is he? You're all full of crap, too. It's VERY convenient for "you" to hold these positions - over him - now isn't it! Sure, you don't like it! And the part where he's now famous and doing REALLY WELL (probably mopping up today) in his hit show about his (horrible) practice (whether aired on TV or him doing so well "off TV" now, I'm) sure just pisses the royal bejebeez off you...doesn't it! Hey, let's hang him at dawn...wanna? Folks, they call this jealousy 101. In your cases, we could call it "Slam-Jealousy 102" (for your "educated" sense of self-righteousness on wheels)! Those with a "different method" like Dr. Pol's deserve to be labeled with "hurting animals" you believe, huh? Hey, he's to blame for all that compassion he shows inside his practice - for both animals AND their owners, huh? It's all about "your" superior Vet "knowledge," isn't it. But the truth is, YOU ALL ARE PRACTICING MEDICINE out there today, too, aren't you! You're not perfect or even probably "good at what you do" - like you self-diagnose, I'd bet. Oh, we know you think so...but the truth is...you're jealous & covetous and in direct competition with Dr. Pol, too, aren't you? I bet the good Dr. Pol has forgotten more Veterinary Medicine than you "accusers" on this blog and all the others out here spending your "got nothing else to do time" slamming him ever knew in the first place! My gracious, Doctors! Who the F do you think you are today, really? Arrogance is such a tempting weapon for so many to use on others today in Amerika! You know so better about Dr. Pol's entire existence and practice that you go out and commit soul-smashing, like this? I've seen this same thing go on, now, for the past 30 yrs in my own field...of Human Medicine, too! Doctors are such jerks so often today! Yep, I'm an ER Doctor in the "other world" of medicine, treating all types of you Stupid Humans today. The one thing I can't stand after enduring this ordeal for the past 40 yrs is an "accuser of the brethren"...even though you may have some minor points of contention that you feel must be aired! Your public "airing" of this is atrocious, but too, it's a harsh world today all around, how well I know this to be true. Beyond a really very few items of concern (some events of a more intense intervention possibly, by your opinions, needed "more intervention" on some animals...as you dictate per your know-it-all accusatory knowledge of your field today...maybe) becomes your ammo to hit your target named Dr. Pol, your colleague for Pete's sake, today! FYI: This vet is a kind and wonderful Vet - by any standard you should factually use today! You "accusers" could learn not only some civility manners, but a lot of good stuff from this guy, Dr. Pol...but you won't, I'm sure. I know your types, and you need intense therapy...but you won't get that either, I am also sure. Think about it. You already "know better" about this guy and you now want his hide hung out to dry, don't you! You're a bunch of fools, too...like most "Human MD's" I know that do this. Ever heard of the 10 Commandments? By your actions here you are breaking several of them all at once, FYI: 1,2,6,9,10. Good luck on Judgment Day, you arrogant Dr. Jerks!

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    1. Tell, 'em, Doc! People dont realize that the over medicalization of procedures is unnecessary, but done for face validity.

      Delete
  33. Dr. Phelps, you seem to have misplaced your lithium. Your comment is disorganized, poorly punctuated, and confusing. Are you calling us accusers or not? There seem to be some rogue quotation marks suggesting that you don't actually mean we are actual accusers but rather that you are using the word in another way or with another meaning. You also call us young. It's as if you believe we're all under 50 years old. Your'e sadly mistaken. Now as to the full of crap business, that may well be. You know, you get up in years, and the GI tract gets sluggish.

    As far as fame goes, you can keep it. You think we wish we had reality shows? In actual fact, at least two of us have been approached and declined to participate in one. And I know I speak for the entire group of VBB when I say none of us are in any way jealous of someone who is regularly seen on national television committing malpractice.

    You don't believe in public airing of collegial malpractice? Well, that's part of the problem with medicine today. Perhaps if more doctors (of every type) would be less willing to ignore & tolerate the incompetence and negligence of their colleagues, we'd have fewer crappy-ass docs out there in both of our fields.

    Regarding your claim that we are breaking commandments 1, 2, 6, 9, & 10:

    1. Several VBB believe there is no god. Others believe in One True God. There may be a few of us who believe in multiple Gods. I couldn't say, not having discussed religious beliefs with the entire crew. I don't see anything here on our blog about God though.

    2. No idol worship going on here either, pal.

    6. WTF? None of us are murderers. Most of us do practice euthanasia. What are you smoking?

    9. I see where you're going with this one at least, but see the key is FALSE witness is forbidden. Speaking truth is totally a-ok with God. And that is what we do. So, whatever.

    10. So, yeah, you think we covet Pol's fame & fortune? You can think it all you want but that won't make it true. As far as I'm concerned you could not pay me enough to be on one of those TV shows under any circumstances. It's funny though how you assume that none of the VBB are already famous. You have no idea who we are. Suffice it to say that we don't need what Pol has. We're good. Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Why don't all you jealous over educated idiots shut up.
      You probably couldn't save the life of an animal by thinking outside the box if it killed you because there is NO COMMON SENSE anymore.
      You all make me sick.
      There are so many Vets in my "mid" size town, over 1/2 of them are incompetent, many in treating older dogs/cats for Diabetes, Cushing's, not educating owners on how to avoid/treat hypoglycemia, and I could go on and on. I have sent so many to my personal Vet and they are SO thankful, because their pets health turns around, etc. I can tell you, all you PIOUS VETS you make sure you are not living in a GLASS HOUSE.

      Delete
  34. Interesting that so many of you complaining about Dr. Pol have NEVER seen him in a professional setting, only on t.v. The last comment, which conforms to this website, ATTACKS the previous poster stating they didn't take their lithium. Are you kidding? The post comes across as defensive, rude and unprofessional. More like a childish troll attempting to make a point. Let me clarify this, I am not stating this poster is a troll. Only that instead of attacks, sarcasm, disrespect and anger, why not make your point thoughtfully. Fair exchange of thoughts and opinions should allow most reasonable people to see the other's point of view.

    Please understand, anyone can make a complaint about any doctor. If you did your due diligence you would discover that most doctors (animal and people) have had complaints filed against them at some point. It's called lawsuit lottery.

    Other complaints are because peer's believe they know the best and only medicine as though it is a science. It is called the "practice of medicine" for a reason. My thoughts are based on working for attorneys who represent doctors as well as having worked with doctors. The medical boards use "peer review" doctors who, if they believe the doctor is doing something that isn't taught in medical school, then it isn't good medicine. This is the case against animal and human physicians.

    How many times has the "science of medicine" been rejected, initially? Late in the 1700's a Dr. was convinced that if everyone would wash their hands while delivering babies, many more women and babies would survive. He was ridiculed and ignored. Unbelievable to humans these days. How much pain and suffering from that?

    Two doctors won the Pulitzer prize for determining ulcers are often from H-pylori. Guess what? Those doctors were literally laughed out of BUSINESS. All doctors are now taught about H-pylori and how easy it is treat. These doctors lost their ability to make a living until the "science" of medicine caught up.

    My point is any doctor in practice as long as Dr. Pol is bound to have had a disgruntled patient/owner file a complaint or even a lawsuit. Wait for it....even a valid complaint. He is human.

    As I stated, it is the practice of medicine mixed with the science.

    Furthermore, I find it disgusting how many of the patients Dr. Pol treats who are ill or die simply because of the negligence of their owners. How do two horses, whose owners claim to love them, die in tremendous pain from a perfectly curable medical condition? Had they simply done basic care, had the horses hooves been taken care of, these horses would have survived. Where is there a place to file complaints against people who shouldn't be allowed to own animals? Don't mention financial issues here. If you can't afford the most basic care for any animal, don't own it.

    No doubt I will either be attacked for my thoughts or this post will be deleted. Why can't there be common sense and mature discussions of our differences of opinion?

    ReplyDelete
  35. I'm not a vet, I'm not jealous. I just care about animals. I read the complaint. It wasn't a little mistake, it was awful. As are many things shown on the TV show.
    And yep, lots of people don't take proper care of their animals. If it's bad enough, animal control or whatever proper authority can be notified.

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  38. You folks are ignorant, I was raised and live on a farm, have castrated many horses,goats,sheep,pigs,lambs ETC WITH-OUT anesthesia, AND HAVE SEEN HUNDREDS OF THESE DONE BY VETS THE SAME WAY,Dr pol seems to be a good man and a good vet, i like his show,
    I've seen hundred thousand dollar horses done this way, it's better for the animal , and if the moon is right no bleeding,

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    Replies
    1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_effect#Blood_loss

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  40. I love Dr. Pol and wish I lived closer to his practice! I believe this post is about a family looking to profit or looking to put the blame for the loss of their beloved pet. Here's some news people, NOT EVERY PET CAN BE SAVED. I don't know the case, nor do I care to know, but maybe the family didn't provide the necessary care needed for their animal but I know from watching this show for years that Dr. Pol is an amazing vet and does much more than most vets. I own multiple cats and also foster for a pet rescue, I love my vet and have gone to her for years but I'll tell you this, she would NEVER open when closed or stay late for an emergency, she just sends me to the emergency vet. GOOD JOB NATGEO FOR THE SHOW DR. POL, I don't care how or why you have the show. I just care that you have a show I love!!

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  41. I find this nothing but a witch hunt by someone who is just jealous of someone else's success! I grew up on a farm and watched vets for years and yes they castrated calves without anaesthesia. It was was common practice. I started watching Dr. POL and talked to my niece who is a vet Iowa state and has been practicing for over 10 years she agrees with me.

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  42. This really makes me mad.Why are people jealous of someone better then they are?Dr.Pol is wonderful and his adopted children are fantastic especially Charles.He adores his dad.Diane is so sweet and kind.Come on idiots get off your high horse and leave people alone you can't compete with.Mary Ann C Golden

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  43. Being 'wonderful' and having great children doesn't make you good at your job.

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  44. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  45. I've cared for dogs and cats my entire adult life. I now own 5 dogs and 2 cats. It seems I'm constantly in the vets office for one thing or another. I also work at a large university with a vet school. Over the years, I've lived near 4 large cities, and had access to quality vet care. I've been led down the garden path many times by "new schooled vets". Tons of money down the tubes for too many tests, and never a good outcome in the treatment. Mainly because they didn't know shit. The best vets I've ever had were "old schooled", much less expensive, knowledgeable, and able to get the job done without hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of useless tests. Give me an "old school" vet any day. And no, it's not just about the money. The experience that comes with a vet who has seen it and done it, is much more valuable to me than someone just out of vet school who is more concerned with paying for their new practice than treating patients. I'll take Dr. Pol and his rough, crass, not-by-the-textbook ways any day

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  46. As a ranch owner I can tell a lot of people complaining about dr pol's practice of large animal medicine have never set foot on a real working farm. ( not a hobby farm, a farm that a whole family depends on to live) I applaud the show for an accurate portrayal of farm life. The way I see things done on the show are how I see them done in real life.

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  47. It takes no brains at all to criticize. Jealousy is toxic. Having bread and sold dogs for over a decade as a child, I was forced to choose a veterinarian to help care for my dogs. There were some vets, like many of these critics, who used "concern for the animals" as a shaming weapon on me as a young boy and used it to fill their bank accounts. I am thankful that I found a vet. like Dr. Pol who lowered himself to help a young, broke, kid me try to have pets without pricing me out of the experience. It is clear that Dr. Pols clients are not rich. There is always a lawyer waiting to make money off of those who take risks to help others out. My pets certainly weren't treated like humans. They enjoyed wonderful lives and were loved. They received their basic needs medically and my Vet. like Dr. Pol, was a God send. Let the jealous, lazy, $ digging, colleagues try to serve those of us who cannot afford to pay them thousands of dollars to avoid their shaming rhetoric.

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  49. I would assume the individuals attacking Dr. Pol are not consuming factory produced meat? I understand the need to protect animals, I love them too. If you are indeed consuming these foods please educate yourself on the cruelty that is ubiquitous in the "meat" industry. Thank you.

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  50. I am a large animal vet in upstate NY as was my father before me and my grandfather before him. For generations we have used the same or similar techniques as Dr.Pol and his staff. We are respected and loved by our farm families and small pet owners alike. Just because there are new techniques ..newer doesnt always equate better. Its a shame to hear from town and city vets critique large animal vets in this way. Those are the same vets who charge hundreds just to sit in their office and wait for treatment with fancy machinery that does the same thing we do with simple materials. We give anesthetics when safe and warranted and have a lower rate of animal mortality than most town and city vets. Also lets not forget these are the same vets who refuse to treat your animal if you cant pay them. Large animal vets dont turn away farmers (who you depend on for your safe meat) or small owners alike. Human Drs and animal Drs are HUMAN..and their will be timesof human error....Id like to see the backround of all the vets complaining...i promise you, youll be surprised when you see how dirty their hands are. Their documentation is all out there to see too.

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  51. If you don't like him don't watch him but don't stabd on your holier than though ground and pass blame. If you are not satisfied with the service you get from a vet then find another one!!!

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