I think this behavior is a little over the top. Your dog dies so you beat up your veterinarian? Really?
I remember when I was in school, we had a dog in our ICU who was hanging on by a thread pretty much during my entire ICU rotation. I don't recall specifically what was wrong with him, just that I had to check his vitals every 15 minutes all night for several nights in a row, and they were never good, and I frequently had to page my resident, which is never fun, and it didn't at the time seem to me that this dog had any real chance of going home.
At some point toward the end of my rotation, this dog started actively trying to die again. This time, for whatever reason, the owner of the dog got mad. Having received yet again a phone call from the supervising veterinarian asking him if he wanted full resuscitation or if we should euthanize or let the dog go, he apparently hung up the phone without answering, and arrived at the building moments later (he must have been on his way in for a visit or something). He stormed past the security desk and headed into the ICU and just started pushing and shoving and yelling and knocking over IV poles and basically clearing a path to the dog - in whose cage I was sitting, because I was bagging him at the time. Luckily the security team was right behind him and they had him out of there pretty fast, because all I could think at the time was how upset my mom was going to be if I was killed by some maniac client before I even graduated.
Anyone else ever find themselves on the wrong side of a client's fists? Officer Cynical, I'm not talking to you here :) (though I'm sure you can share plenty of fun stories) (and you should feel free to do so)
Twice I've had off duty police officers who happened to be in the office face down irate clients who were threatening my staff, and once an off duty bartender, who frankly looked to be as well equipped to deal with irrational folks by virtue of his unique experiences. We've called 911 several times over the years. Definitely seems like people are more angry, and frankly crazier these days than I've seen before. We just ordered the third firearm, a shotgun to keep in that part of the clinic that is likely to be the last hiding place if someone totally murderous comes by.
ReplyDeleteOur receptionist at one of the ECs where I worked got death threats (intended for all of us) regularly. It usually happened when people found out that they needed to pay for treatment. I have been physically threatened to my face once. The police were already on their way and I was fairly certain that they would get there before anything really rough happened.
ReplyDeleteThe most scared I have been was on a farm call to a barn where the owner had just died of cancer. I was there to pull a foal and the whole family started fighting and someone brought out a gun and started threatening another family member. I remember grabbing the calf jack and trying to get out of there as quickly as possible.
Hmmmm. . . the article doesn't mention what the procedure was. If the dog was already in bad shape and they were trying to save his life, I think the owner was completely and totally out of line. But if I took my dog in for something really routine like a teeth cleaning or routine neuter and was informed he was dead when I came to pick him up. . . . I might deck somebody. I'd feel badly about it afterward, but in the moment of shock and grief I could see myself throwing a punch.
ReplyDeleteemoore---"routine" procedures that require sedation and/or anesthesia still hold an element of risk. this is why you sign consent forms. you have no right to react with your fist, no matter what the outcome is.
DeleteFrom the article, it says the man was notified of the dog's death and he then returned to the clinic where he assaulted the veterinarian. We certainly don't know the whole story, but it appears the client was notified of the death soon after it happened, and then returned to the clinic, which to me is more 'premeditation.' He certainly had time to think about his actions before he arrived back at the clinic - not a surprise. Waiting until a client arrives to pick up an animal to tell them the animal died is unprofessional and below the standard of care. This clinic did however notify the owner of the incident.
Delete@Emoore, here's the problem with that: there is no such thing as a risk-free "routine" anesthetic procedure. It is entirely within the realm of reasonable possibility (although certainly not high probability) that the World's Best Doctor (for any species) will lose a patient during "something really routine" for reasons completely beyond his or her control*. Good doctors attempt to ensure their patients/clients are aware of this PRIOR TO THE PROCEDURE. Thus educated, a client should be able to refrain from punching the veterinarian in the face when being told the bad news that his or her pet has succumbed unexpectedly - in my not-so-humble opinion.
ReplyDelete*for example, occult cardiac disease that had not presented itself prior to the procedure, or occult brain aneurysm that acutely ruptures during the procedure, or even anaphylaxis, etc.
I understand that and I agree it's not a good thing to do. I'm just saying I can see the guy's point. If you dropped of your canine family member for a routine procedure and were told, when you came to pick him up, that he was dead, it's understandable you could lose touch with reality for a few seconds. It's not right, but it's understandable.
DeleteI work with a rescue group and take 10-15 dogs in for spays/neuters per year. I'm handed a paper which has risks enumerated in very small type and written in legalese and told, "sign this and give it back," but nobody's ever sat down and talked with me about the possible risk of surgery.
Just saying I can see why the average, non-medical-professional dog owner might be thrown for a loop.
"Thrown for a loop" doesn't mean beat a person to the point of severe injuries just because you can't handle the news. There's NO reason for this to happen. I would reccomend the next time your approached to sign something for your rescued pets to get procedures done, take 5-10 minutes and READ IT!!! If your not sure ask. It's quite simple. Remind me not to treat your pets for I would get beat if one died, because you see the guys point of beating someone....SHEESH!
DeleteWhoa... I think the only thing Emoore is trying to say is that people overreact when shocked. It's not right, it's not excusable, but it does happen.
DeleteYes every procedure has risks, yes people who sign the consent forms should acknowledge this, but there's a difference between a knowing there's a risk and reasonably expecting one.
What if the "dying during treatment" meant is got loose during potty time and was hit by a car? Obviously that scenario isn't likely, I'm just playing devil's advocate.
I am not excusing what this client did at all - TOTALLY out of line. But I won't jump down Emoore's throat for pointing out that we don't know the whole story either.
Wasn't it another blogger on VBB who said they worked for a vet who hung a dog up by a slip collar until the dog was dead, and then told the owner the dog died during a procedure? Yeah. Just like in the news item mentioned above, it's easy to judge when you don't know the whole story.
DeleteEmoore: Here's you story..
Deletehttp://www.keyt.com/news/local/ventura-county/Veterinarian-Beatten-by-Angry-Client-140299383.html
I've had some scary moments but none that progressed to violence. Makes me want to carry mace!
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid though, my father came close when our vet enucleated the wrong eye on our dog, but he's mature enough that he left instead. He still cries about that dog though and has never gotten another one - they ended up having our horse vet put her down the next day because she was now a deaf and totally blind dog who was in complete and utter panic, poor thing. I hope it was an honest mistake, but it was terrible for us and as far as I know, they never apologized and just sent a bill. That is a lesson in communication I will never forget.
OK I work in Social work/child welfare. Lets just say that part of my job is removing kids from homes. I have seen a lot of fists, baseball bats, had garbage thrown at me, had people made jokes about trying kill me, had my tiers slashed, had 5000 worth of damage done to my car, had my windows broken and a mysterious "free sex" sign appear on my front lawn.
ReplyDeleteNot that it never happens, but I think most cops don't find themselve on the wrong end of fists very often. For one thing, I'm always on guard for it, and that's a huge plus. Second, we're trained to "disengage" (i.e., get the hell out of there), and re-engage with the appropriate force (pepper, Tazer, etc.). The person and his fists usually lose.
ReplyDeleteI would like to tell you about something that happened today, though. We were called to a supposed garage burglary in progress. Once I got in there, I saw that the windows of the car parked inside were all fogged up and icy. I figured my burglar was in the car. Imagine my surprise (and horror) when I discovered two medium-sized dogs (like Australian Shepherds) inside a single plastic crate, which was on the back seat of the car. The inside of the car reeked of dog piss and shit, and there was neither food nor water for the dogs. I immediately called our animal control group, who I had take the dogs into custody. Amazingly, they are doing well. Imagine if that call had never been dispatched! WTF is wrong with the human race that such a thing can happen?
I have been kicked in the cheekbone by one patient(who was a physician's elderly father), hit in the face by another patient, bitten on the arm by yet another, and threatened by many. However, they were all either Alzheimer's or dementia patients, or rendered temporarily mentally incapacitated from medications or anesthesia.
ReplyDeleteBut then, there have been several instances of irate family members shooting up a particular hospital unit.
Guess there will always be crazies out there.
We had a woman who's 2 year old dog died while having a "routine" dental. We found out later that the dog had a liver shunt. We always give the option of pre-ane blood work and IV fluids, but the owner declined. When she found out that the dog had died during the dental, she showed up with her whole family. It was pretty scary but luckily, they left.
ReplyDeleteIf a pet died during a routine procedure, I would certainly expect the Dr to contact the owner prior to their coming back to the clinic. The charges of a DVM purposely killing a pet are few & far between, but are still disturbing. With >60,000 DVMs in the USA alone, one would expect to find a few who fall into the "disturbed" category.
ReplyDeleteIn recent times, I know of 3 instances where clients threatened to get a gun & come shoot Drs/staff at the clinic. These were not pets who had died.....1 ( He claimed to be a base commander. ) due to costs of antibiotics for a chronic urinary tract infection; 1 who owned a dog with a terminal brain tumor that went downhill for >6 months; 1 whose dog had crytorchid surgery & was being discharged ( Owner didn't know what cryptorchid surgery meant & didn't ask. ).
I also know of several pet ERs that have bullet-proof glass at their reception area plus self-locking doors in/out. They have security cameras in the lobby & outside. That's the sad state we find ourselves in these days.
I work ER in TX and I carry a gun (licensed)...very small (but effective), concealed under my lab coat in the back of my scrub pants. If I find I am going to be conducting a procedure where I need to removed my lab coat and my movements might result in the pistol being visible, I excuse myself briefly to the office to place it in my purse. I have had one client that really frightened me...I'm pretty sure he beat his wife, so no problems with hitting a woman...but thankfully it did not escalate further. I don't care how upset you are, physical violence is NEVER appropriate. If you become abusive in any way, verbal or physical, or if you threaten me or my staff, I will ask you to take your pet (however critical, unfortunately...this guy's Chihuahua was in heart failure...and leave...after I've pushed the panic button. I hope that I never have to even draw my weapon, much less ever fire it, but I will not hesitate to protect the lives of myself and my staff. I feel much more comfortable knowing that I have an effective means by which to do so.
ReplyDeleteMan got in my face once about a cruelty case. I was doing an inspection on his animal and ordered it euthanized. After being threatened and leaving the premises, my vehicle failed and could no longer be driven. Garbage (rocks, glass sand etc...) recovered from fuel tank, engine damaged beyond repair. Filed a report, no recourse.
ReplyDeleteThere has only been one time I was concerned over the aggressive behavior of a client. I told him he had to pay for his parvo treatment before we would dismiss his puppy, like I told him & his wife before we admitted the puppy for treatment.
ReplyDeleteWell for starters (not to be judgmental), he looked scary, dirty clothes, missing teeth, wild hair... like a meth head. When I told him he had to pay the full balance (and no you can't pay $50 a month) he got very angry & started pacing back & forth in the lobby, cussing, screaming & pulling his own hair. (in front of his 5 year old) Finally he stormed out with out paying.
A few minutes later, his wife called, she was well spoken, sounded educated & was full of apologies. She assured me that her husband would be right back, money in hand & "his attitude would be much better" when he returned.
A bit later the crazy man did indeed return & it was like talking to a different person. He was polite, respectful, paid the bill in full.... & REAKED of marijuana (I mean it was BAD). I guess he had to go take a break & calm down for a bit...
So I read on a veterinary website that the vet in question is doing ok but that if it wasn't for someone else in the office, we might have been blogging about a murder rather than an assault. After watching the offender's interview and listening to him 1) try to justify what he did and 2) attempt to explain it as the veterinarian "running into" his fist, I hope the guy is not only gets hung out to dry on criminal charges, but also that there is a law suit and he has to pay for any and all medical costs related to his actions.
ReplyDeleteThe only threatening client I've seen was a man whose family's diabetic cat had gone missing for a few days and came home doing very poorly. We were given overnight (less than 24 hours) to try and stabilize the cat, and we couldn't get his BG to normalize. The man came in to pay for euth and cremation, and blew up when we told him how much it was ($150 or so for communal). He started speaking in a low, tense voice that "the person on the phone" said it would be $45. Including myself, there were 3 employees at this clinic, and no one would have told him that, but given that only 2 of us were there and we didn't want him to get violent, we agreed to the $45 charge and sent him on his way. Thankfully the cat was the only pet for that family, so I never saw any of the family again.
ReplyDeleteI have a sign on my clinic door that says: "Dr. Branton will no longer tolerate the following: Drunks, Glassy-eyed dope and pot heads, Thugs with your pants below your butt, Pet owners pre-occupied with cell phone, Bullies, and pets allowed to run loose in lobby." Dr. Branton will treat you with the same respect you give her.
ReplyDeleteAppointments only will enter.
My door remains locked except for appointments and my customers love me for it. If I see a good customer with an emergency, I will unlock the door (cameras are everywhere). I have had SERIOUS issues with non-paying customers with sick animals or pets hit by cars and I can no longer afford to work for them after 28 years. When they knock and eventually call-in (I now know who they are because it is a VERY small town), I simply tell them WHEN they dial in..............all of them have a phone, that I am vry sorry, I truly do want to help them; yet, I cannot take on any more cases till the ones in the clinic are taken care of....my plate is full and it would be an injustice to them and their pet to take on more than I can handle. This way, no one is offended and they go on down the road to cheat another vet. This is not being mean, I truly am burn-out working 18 hours a day when most of my long hours are the result of free-loaders dragging in late in the day.
I have a sign on my clinic door that says: "Dr. Branton will no longer tolerate the following: Drunks, Glassy-eyed dope and pot heads, Thugs with your pants below your butt, Pet owners pre-occupied with cell phone, Bullies, and pets allowed to run loose in lobby." Dr. Branton will treat you with the same respect you give her.
ReplyDeleteAppointments only will enter.
My door remains locked except for appointments and my customers love me for it. If I see a good customer with an emergency, I will unlock the door (cameras are everywhere). I have had SERIOUS issues with non-paying customers with sick animals or pets hit by cars and I can no longer afford to work for them after 28 years. When they knock and eventually call-in (I now know who they are because it is a VERY small town), I simply tell them WHEN they dial in..............all of them have a phone, that I am vry sorry, I truly do want to help them; yet, I cannot take on any more cases till the ones in the clinic are taken care of....my plate is full and it would be an injustice to them and their pet to take on more than I can handle. This way, no one is offended and they go on down the road to cheat another vet. This is not being mean, I truly am burn-out working 18 hours a day when most of my long hours are the result of free-loaders dragging in late in the day.