I just wanted to put that out there, seeing as how certain people keep saying that the VBB are not representative of 99% of practicing veterinarians, or some other totally bogus, made-up statistic.
Since I'm posting pics, I wanted throw something else out there for you guys:
This textbook has over 1000 pages, and you know what? I have read them all. I like to read, I like to learn, and I knew *before* I went to veterinary school that "Jim down at the feed store" was telling his customers that vets don't learn anything about nutrition. So, next time you hear someone telling you that vets don't learn anything about nutrition, please check and see if THAT person has read all 1000 pages of this textbook, or similar, as well as attended lectures and small group discussions with veterinary nutritionists, and so on. Just check into that for me, ok?
So happy I found your blog, it makes a rainbow grow out of my heart! Thanks for the venting that we all (well, at least myself) share! Does that make me in the 1% as well?? ;-)
ReplyDeleteHi @VetGirl20! That's sweet. You are welcome to join us here in this ever-expanding 1% (which I think is up to 92% by now but hey, who's counting???)
ReplyDeleteKeep it up, we're with you! Those of us deep in the trenches who spend some of our days just trying not to pull our hair out appreciate this blog for what it is and what it provides. Kudos!
ReplyDeleteDid any of you ever stop to question why you would need a 1000-page textbook on how to feed companion animals? Perhaps it is because the animals are being deprived a natural diet of meat and other scraps (for dogs) and you all need to figure out how to maintain some sort of health for them eating meat meal and corn. Just as cows are not designed to eat corn and need all sorts of supplements and antibiotics to keep them healthy the same thing is true dogs. No being on this planet was meant to eat corn in the amounts we do.
ReplyDeleteI am sure you all will just write off my comments as those of a troll but I am a patient person.
It is needed because it is a very complex topic. Please note the various subsections of the book. The first section is general principles. Second comes the section on pet foods. This is fairly large because the pet food industry is huge. The variety of foods available truly dwarf what you see on your local store's shelves. Next we have the section on nutrition for clinically normal pets. Last, and largest is on nutritional needs for various clinical conditions. The requirements for food allergy are vastly different from those for differing cardiac conditions, and from those for renal failure, etc. I hope this helps answer your query.
ReplyDeleteOh, YAY! We get to play THIS game again. Joy.
ReplyDeleteSigh. Even a textbook the size of the Tokyo phonebook is a conspiracy from Big Kibble. Sometimes you just can't win!
ReplyDelete@dr_kitten - I was thinking the same thing... Can't we just agree to disagree? @shihtzustaff -no disrespect intended but if you had treated as many pets as I(and I'm sure the other VBBs)have seen sickened by feeding meat and other scraps or worse esophageal or GI foreign bodies from bones you might better understand our position.
ReplyDeleteAlso, do I understand you correctly that today you criticize us for needing a 1000 page textbook but in your prior statements declared that dvms do not get sufficient training in nutrition duing our schooling?
Thanks VBBs, glad to be here...I am happy to join in the fun haha...I relate so very much, & as I'm just now approaching 4 years out of school, I appreciate a blog which can help to prevent me from becoming too cynical or ending up in a strait jacket.... :-)
ReplyDeleteMy experience and the experiences of about 50 other people who feed raw does not jive with what you are saying. We fed 11 dogs raw for several years. This involved seniors and puppies. We never had any issues with bacteria, bones lodging in the esophagus or the digestive tract. We feed our dogs human grade raw meaty bones supplemented with other food they want to eat. Our dogs are beyond healthy. Where some kibble-fed dogs need dentals at young ages we have a 9-year old pitbull with perfect teeth. Our dogs do not have allergies or other skin issues. Even when raw-feeding vets like Dr. Peter Dobias (I posted a link to his blog before) you still won't open your mind. I just don't understand why your minds are so closed. At one point you told me that dogs were scavengers but in the same breath you say they can't handle food with natural bacteria. It just doesn't make sense.
ReplyDeleteI was not criticizing your need for 1000-page textbook. I was stating that perhaps it has all become so complicated because you are trying to replicate what nature provides naturally.
the plural of anecdote does not equal data
DeleteNature also provides hemorrhagic disease, parasites, cancer, parasatiodism, earthquakes, volcanoes, etc.
It has already been explained why we need 1000 page textbooks, but the simple reason is because nutrition is complicated.
Those kibble fed dogs needed COHATS not DENTALS. DENTAL is an adjective! Would you say your dog needed a SURGICAL???? I think not.
ReplyDeletesemantics, word play.
Deleteyou try telling my clients
their dogs need "COHAT."
LOL- you know we got this book free our freshman year of vet school and I don't think I've cracked it open once... Wow.
ReplyDeleteI hate raw fed diets- I had a great case of a nice hemorrhagic E. coli once that was actually traced back to the raw diet...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20163574
ReplyDeletehttp://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/2010/05/articles/animals/dogs/more-raw-debate/
I love love love your blog. I'm a 4th year who is about to go into the real world, but I've already seen some major ridiculousness... I so look forward to these posts - THANK YOU!
ReplyDeleteRoudebush is head of Hill's nutrition, isn't he?
ReplyDeleteThat doesn't make his information biased, though many would assume that.
I dabbled in a bit of equine nutrition back when I was at uni. I still have all the books (waiting for when I can actually afford a horse). It's insanely complex, and that's just for one animal! The different brands of gras, the different cuts of hay... pfff. I can't remember any of it *embarassed giggle*.
ReplyDeleteI've recently been getting into chickens (cheaper than horses - at least that's what I tell my OH). I know a lot of people who have decided to try the equivalent to a dog's raw diet and grow and feed all the raw ingredients to their chickens. They report on how difficult it is to mix the food in such a way the birds get the correct amounts of proteins, oils, fibre, etc, especially when the birds can pick out the bits they prefer. Industry feed at least has the benfit of coming ready-mixed in all the right quantities. Less hassle.
Dear Time-Out
ReplyDeleteI think the problem with feeding horses or chickens is, that we have only a certain ammount of space on which they can graze/forage for food.
We have a big orchard and some chickens, geese and ducks and they go around the whole day, eating insects, slugs,herbs and are only feed whole wheat twice a day.
They are healthy, happy..no problems with any illnesses if you don´t count the problems that might occur with the offspring in the first few weeks.
If you have your horse in a box/chickens in the backyard or otherwise restricted with the normal foraging for food, than you need the ready mixes because the natural variety of plants/insects deterogates fast.
And I wouldn´t feed the ready mixes that are used in factory farming because they have very nasty ingredients in them.
People are allowed to manufacture chicken poop into pig feed or old, rancid frying fat as the fat part in the feed.
Our neighbour who keeps his chicken in a small fenced area and only naked soil is now there, is milling different grains, adding a supplement and feeds it.
There are recipes online where you know which grains/seeds to mix and what to add to make a complete feed without the nasty stuff that is in cheap ready made mixes.
That isn´t really such a big hassle, just like teeth brushing it gets routine.
And you really know what you feed and get a good quality.
I live in a farming town. The people who keep just a small flock of different birds to meet their needs rarely buy ready made mixes.
Maybe they also don´t see it as a hassle because they grew up with it.