Monday, January 30, 2012
When everyone is special, no one is special
These days, everyone is special, right? Awards ceremonies for children's activities have become nearly meaningless, because EVERYONE gets an award. Even my own kids have told me they think it's a complete waste of time and stupid, and that no one ever gets to feel special, because the people in charge are always saying how special everyone is. But for some reason, some people really like that feeling of being somehow special, so much that they project it onto their pet. Not just their pet, actually - their entire breed.
Now, don't get me wrong. It's true that each breed of dog or cat or horse or sheep or whatever has its own set of interesting qualities that set it apart from the other breeds of dogs or cats or horses or sheep or whatever - otherwise, they wouldn't be separate breeds. And obviously, some people will prefer one type over another type, and that's great. What really drives me nuts though is the people who make this big fuss over how SPECIAL their breed is when it comes to: anesthesia, vaccines, antibiotics, parasites, or other medical issues. Because 99% of the time, it's complete bullshit. Seriously.
When is it NOT complete bullshit? Well, ok, Greyhounds. Greyhounds sometimes develop perioperative hyperthermia, possibly related to anxiety. Greyhounds and similarly very lean sighthounds used to have bigger issues with general anesthesia when the main drugs used were injectable barbiturates. So, if you walk into my clinic and you have a greyhound who needs general anesthesia, and you say "Oh, doctor, I just can't allow that, Greyhounds are special and they can't be anesthetized, how could you not know?" I am going to mentally *headdesk* while I bite my tongue, and then I will take a deep breath and smile and explain the GREAT NEWS that we have actually advanced quite a bit beyond the injectable barbiturates that used to be such a problem, and that we have new and better balanced anesthesia protocols these days, and we can use anxiolytics to manage the perioperative stress, and honestly, you don't need to panic. Hopefully, you'll be pleased to have learned this, and we can proceed.
There are also a few other breed-related laboratory idiosyncrasies that sometimes come up, and of course there are different inherited disease and so forth, but honestly, this "special" business is something else.
Examples of some of the complete bullshit I have heard:
1. "My puppy can NOT have a leptospirosis vaccine. My breeder has been breeding MaltiFlufferPoos for 25 years, and she knows. Lepto vaccine will KILL my puppy and I refuse to allow it. This breed is just very sensitive to the vaccine and when you give it to them they swell up and get bloody diarrhea and die." I will mentally translate this to "my breeder once had a puppy experience anaphylaxis, freaked out, and refused to ever give the vaccine again. Hey, maybe if she's really high volume, it happened twice." I will try to explain to you that there is no one particular breed that DIES from lepto vaccines more than any other, but most of the time people with this idea drummed into their heads won't listen to me. Also, FYI: MaltiFlufferPoo is not a breed.
2. "I refuse to allow you to give any deworming medication to my puppy. The breeder told me that Garbage Hounds are very special in that they react badly to all dewormers, and we need to let him develop his own immunity to the worms." I have no reasonable explanation for this. Maybe the breeder had a bad experience deworming a group of puppies one time? I have a hard time believing that, most common dewormers have a wide safety margin. I find it extremely frustrating, especially when there are children in the home who might be at risk for developing a larval migrans syndrome.
3. "My dog is not just a small dog like all the other small dogs you see routinely. He is a very special nano-teacup miniature micro yorkie. He has to get only 1/4 the dose of all vaccines." No, sorry. The immune system does not work that way. The dose of vaccine is not up for debate. We are giving the entire vaccine, or we are not vaccinating your dog here today. Also, there is no such thing as a nano-teacup miniature micro yorkie. I don't care if you paid $3500 for it, it's not a real thing. By the way, since we're on the subject, I know you said the breeder told you it's normal, but - hydrocephalus is actually not normal and your puppy looks like a conehead.
4. "Doctor, my kitten is a Bengal. You may not know this but they are very special cats. They require a 70% as fed protein diet made up of mostly raw meats." Hate to break it to you, but no, the nutritional requirements of the Bengal is not markedly different from the nutritional requirements of other domestic feline housepets.
5. "My Devon Rex is non-allergenic." No it isn't. While there is some variation in amount of dander that a pet leaves lying around and of course the volume of hair falling off it will play a role, an allergic individual may still react to your cat, because it is a cat, and it has a salivary protein called FelD1, and it grooms itself, and that stuff dries on there, and then flakes off into the environment. FelD1 levels can vary per individual cat and on a population level some breeds may make more than others but there are no standard breeds of cats that do not have any. Sorry.
What kinds of "special" breed stories have you heard?
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I guess I have to say if I qualify as being "special" in this regard, I'm kind of okay with it.
ReplyDeleteI don't give ivermectin based heartworm medicines because I'm not entirely sure of my dog's parentage, and he's part farm dog.
I warn my vet that he can have a hard time with anesthesia as a precaution with being half-Pyr (proven by experience).
I don't think he's "special" I just like to be cautious. He get vaccines because he's shown no sensitivities, he'll get titers when he's 10. And I'll always worry excessively if he needs to be anesthetized for anything because of how it affects him.
Labs that can't have rimadyl, bc of that one story that apparently got around the country about the one dog that developed a hepatopathy. Sure, take medical advice from a chain email.
ReplyDelete@rotc_spaz you do realize that even collies can take Heartgard, right? The dose makes the poison!
ReplyDelete@Dr.M seriously.
VBB, it's not safe for every dog, and I'd prefer to err on the side of caution and avoid having a dead dog. Not to mention there have been effectiveness issues in my area.
DeleteThe dose of ivermectin in Heartgard is too low to cause a problem in a dog which has the MDR1 mutation for ivermectin sensitivity. In fact, clinical trials were done in collie dogs WITH the mutation, using 10 times the recommended dose of Heartgard, and the sensitive dogs had no signs of toxicity. So, there is no safety issue with respect to the extremely low dose of ivermectin present in Heartgard at recommended doses, but certainly if it makes someone more comfortable to avoid it, there's nothing wrong with that either, seeing as how there are reasonable other products on the market. I don't care which brand of HW preventive my clients use, as long as they use something effective.
DeleteHave you had your dog tested for the MDR1 mutation, since you are so concerned about this? That way you would know if he might have problems with any of the other drugs these mutants are potentially sensitive to, such as those listed here: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/drugs.aspx
Here is the FAQ regarding the MDR1 mutation and how to get your dog tested: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-VCPL/FAQ.aspx
I appreciate the links and will bookmark the list of drugs, but I see no reason to spend $70 testing him for something that avoidance can "cure." I've been too busy in the last year having blood panels, getting him a dental, fighting an ear infection, and addressing an unknown irritant on his toe to worry about testing him, especially considering that no vet we have personally visited has ever taken issue with my precaution once I have voiced my concerns.
Delete@rotc_spaz No vet has taken issue because they smile politely and then come to VBB to vent...
Delete@Vetinprogress -- I've already said I'd rather be "special" in this case. I'm cautious, it's not a terrible fault. VBB can't have it both ways, informed owners with an opinion that you treat like idiots and the less than average owners that actually are idiots.
DeleteMostly I really enjoy this blog, and I know now and again I won't. But I'm not going to take the advice of a vet over the internet who doesn't know me, my dog, or our situation. I'll stick with the vets I know over the ones I don't.
Actually, rotc_spaz, while I see your point of caution, you might want to consider that $70 test. The production of Interceptor, a common heartworm preventative is being temporarily suspended for an undetermined amount of time. So your options of heartworm preventative are going to be limited. I know my clinic is going to switch to HeartGard when we run out of Interceptor.
Delete@rotc_spaz I don't think any of us would attempt to offer specific advice for your pet. I know that I personally, as the one who suggested the MDR1 genetic testing, did so only because you seemed like you might be interested due to your level of concern regarding the ivermectin in heartgard (which, again - even if your dog DOES have the mutation, is safe, but whatever). Certainly if you walked into my clinic, and we had this discussion in person, I'd be fine with simply switching over to a different preventative. It's no big deal to me. But if it were ivermectin or nothing (because there was nothing else available), and you were still telling me your dog couldn't take it because it was "sensitive," I'd be extremely upset.
DeleteIt's a good thing you aren't my vet then. My options, I understand, are going to be somewhat limited, especially with the production of Interceptor being stopped. Luckily I'd just bought a 6 month supply, and will be consulting with my vet about what else I can use when I run out. If I needed to do the test, because I had "Heartgaurd or nothing" as my option, I would. I'm not in that situation. Also -- I have other reasons aside from just the ivermectin for not wanting to use Heartguard. My vet allows me to choose what preventative I use, and there's more than one option out there, just because it's all you carry, doesn't mean it's the best, or the right choice FOR ME.
DeleteI have never pretended to tell my vet that my dog is or isn't sensitive to anything but certain grains, which didn't matter, and the anesthesia, which had been proven from an earlier experience. If it is possible to avoid it, that is my preference. If it's not possible, then we'll discuss testing and what else might need to be done. I'd at least hope my vet had the courtesy not to bulldoze me with why I was wrong about my dog, and why I needed to be using a product I'm simply not comfortable with.
I'm a little confused, because it sounds like we agree, that it's not necessary for you to use something you don't want to use, because there are available alternatives!
DeleteIn my clinic the Ivermectin based heart worm preventative is about $12.00 cheaper per 6 month box then the Milbemycin. So if you estimate the average "collie" type breed lives 10 years then that is $240 more over the life time of that dog that you spend avoiding a product that is safe, or not having a test run because of the cost. FWIW~
DeleteWhile Heartgard has been proven safe in ivermectin-sensitive Collie-type dogs, erring on the side of caution is something I can fully understand as we all know about that one case where the "highly unlikely" became reality. With the shortage of Interceptor for an as yet undetermined time period, you have several options besides Heartgard or the "generic" equivalents once your 6-pack runs out...Trifexis, Revolution and Advantage Multi come immediately to mind.
Delete"Dr. Cheapskate said my dog can't ever have anesthesia again because he almost died when he was neutered."
ReplyDeleteI look a the record from Cheapskate, DVM. Anesthetic protocol: telazol and xylazine. No pre-meds, no pain meds...no balanced anesthesia.
"Well, we will just avoid *that* protocol."
***********************
"What do you mean my chow has heartworms? She can't have heartworms, chow hair is too thick for mosquitos to bite her."
**********************
Examining a chihuahua with an open fontanelle (like the "soft spot" on a baby's head, the skull has not closed):
"Bitsy Finger Biter here has an open fontanelle. This could indicate some degree of hydrocephalus (water on the brain), but it also means that her little brain is not protected well."
"My breeder said you would say that," and the owner hands me an information sheet that the kind breeder gave them. It shows illustrations of chihuahua heads and skulls along with the information that an open fontanelle is "normal" for a chihuahua and there is no correlation with hydrocephalus.
Here is where we like to point out the difference between "common" (yes a chihuahua with an open fontanelle is common as is hydrocephalus in that breed) and "normal" (no a skull that has not fused by the age of 6 months in a dog is *not* normal).
I recently had an owner decline spaying her dogs because she was was convinced they would die under anesthesia, just like her other dog. 35 years ago. I assured her that the safety standards have come a long way since telazol and LA xylazine.
DeleteA client made me special order name brand ThyroTabs because 'the generic doesn't work on Shelties'.
ReplyDeleteIt's the same thing, just more expensive.
All bulldogs are allergic to acepromazine. They will DIE if they have it. My breeder told me this and she knows everything there is to know about bulldogs.
ReplyDeleteI work with a rescue and we have people who come to adoption events and brag about the expensive "hypoallergenic" dog they bought. Which is really no better or worse than the variety of mutts we have for adoption, but they feel the need to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars to increase the pet population. Then they discover that the dogs are not so much hypoallergenic, which is mostly ok because many people who want this kind of dog don't really have allergies--they are just "special" themselves.
ReplyDeleteMy brother had his heart set on one of those "poo" mixes, because he claimed (with no evidence) that his daughter was allergic to dogs, but claimed none ever went into shelters or rescues--well except the one I adopted or the half dozen examples I found for him.
I tell people the most "special" thing about my poodle mix is not that she is "hypoallergenic," but that she has both atopic and food allergies, mature juvenile cataracts, and an aversion to being groomed. And that none of these wonderful things makes her an uncommon specimen of any of the probable breeds she came from, she is a good dog, but a fine example both of the kind of dogs people buy from puppy mills and the kind of dogs you can get at a rescue.
I agree. We see a lot of people come in with "poo" mixes that have paid exorbitant amounts for them from a pet specialty store in the mall here called Puppy Love, and then are SHOCKED to find out that their "designer" dog has come with a whole host of problems due to their genetics (ever had to pluck a plug out of the ear of an "English boodle" with severe demodex? NASTY!). It'd be nice if people would do research on breeds before buying, and check the shelter for a pal before going to a breeder or pet store that sells from irresponsible breeders. Seriously? "Dachapoos" are just mutts that you paid out the wazoo for.
DeleteIs it just me, or do a disproportionate number of "hypoallergenic" dogs seem to themselves have allergies?
DeleteJust let me know when the Felinae Litterus Rosepetalis breed comes out.
ReplyDeleteIE: When their poo don't stink! ;)
Bulldog can't have anesthesia
ReplyDeleteBengal cat can't have ketamine
Mini Aussie can't have drug x,y, and z
When I started reading I thought to myself "Oh no, my vet thinks I am an idiot because I believe my dog has special health issues!" Then I saw your exception for greyhounds and I felt better because my greyhound has hypothyroidism and although we've never had to have him anesthetized, NGAP told us they are sensitive to some drugs. WHEW! Hopefully I won't discover any other reasons my vet thinks I'm a dummy.
ReplyDelete~Me -
DeleteVets don't usually think owners are idiots for voicing a concern. What concerns vets is that owners will put more stock into skewed information a breeder, friend, or passer-by gives them than the good information the vet gives them. People do this to us constantly, which hampers our ability to do our job, which is to help your pet stay healthy!
The clinic I work at sees the vast majority of the greyhounds in our area due to the local rescue, so I know where you're coming from with that. Unfortunately we get a lot of dumb breeders in, too, so I know your pain in that category as well. My favorite is, "Oh, I never deworm my puppies. Their mother doesn't have any signs of carrying worms, so the puppies OBVIOUSLY don't have them. You're just out for my money!!" Because, you know, you can ALWAYS tell on the outside if a dog is carrying parasites. *eyeroll*
ReplyDeleteI get purebred dogs from breeders, because I hunt and compete and show (but my favorite is agility). Thankfully I don't do any of that stupid shit that is mentioned, and I get my dogs from breeders with brains. My first dog was carefully watched at first with his Lepto, because his father had a bad reaction every time and a few of his offspring did as well. We dosed with Benadryl, sat in the office for a half hour, and then went on our merry way. A couple times after we tried it without Benadryl, and he was fine. The lepto was important because of the area we lived in and the things we do with our dogs.
ReplyDeleteWhen he had surgery, I did mention the Greyhound thing because my dog is also a very low fat breed, to nearly the same extent as GH, and my dog specifically had a fat percentage extreme marathoners never reach. It was mentioned once, in a pre-surgical exam, about how it would affect things (back then, not all vets used isoflurane, let alone newer things).
These issues can be handled in an entirely reasonable way. It seems like animals attract more crazies than other "hobbies", and dogs in particular seem to have more nutters than cats.
I was taught in vet school to only use thryo-tabs, that the generic is not reliable, FWIW.
ReplyDelete"My pit bull that you're currently treating (for demodex) is getting so much better on your treatment, but sometimes she is itchy when she comes home from playing with my neighbor's dog and that dog is also losing hair in places, kind of like she was. My friend, who's a breeder says that this isn't this demodex thing you said (Yes it is. we been monitoring skin scrapings). It's a normal thing that pit bulls get and you treat it with steroids and it just goes away forever. Can I get some steroids to give to this other dog you've never seen so he doesn't infect my dog with this mysterious pit bull skin disease?
ReplyDelete....You mean to tell me you're going to refuse to prescribe a medication to an animal you've never seen for a disease that doesn't exist? No, my friend has no money for an exam so bringing the other dog in for an is going to be impossible. Well, my breeder's vet probably will probably do it for me. She's a bit more experienced with the breed than you are.
....I don't care that you say that no reputable vet is going to medicate an animal he's never examined. You WON'T help me and I'm going to find a vet who will!" *hangs up in a huff*"
last time i reported someone for negligence (the owner reported that her dog had a broken leg, but that her only treatment would be to give it aspirin), the owner came in to my office after the fact to complain that someone had reported her. Her reasoning for why her lack of care didn't count as abuse: "it's a BICHON! Nobody would abuse a BICHON!"
ReplyDeleteBwahahaha I heard the yorkie story exactly today! They argued with my doctor for 30 minutes on why it was dangerous to administer the full vaccine & how Rabies couldn't be given till at least 1 year, because The Breeder told them so... *facepalm*
ReplyDeleteOooooh.... My favorite was one of wonderful clients brought in their new king Charles caviler pup for a vet check. Bilateral luxating patellas, open fontenel, umbilical hernia, retained testicle .... Top notch breeding. Owner felt confident in the breeder because she offered a health garentee. After gently telling her the findings on her precious new baby I help her go through the paperwork on the garentee.
ReplyDeleteThis pup would be replaced if it had to be euthanzied or died from mitral valve disease befor the age of 4 years.... But this garentee was void if the new owner failed to feed the "special" supplement of which the breeder was the sole distributor in a tri state area. The sample of the supplement looked like coffee grounds and smelled like raw sewage.
We had a bull terrier owner who said the breeder said in no way should we give a rabies vaccine until it was a least a year old. And they wanted to have at least 5 semen collections before being neutered (as it's pissing all over the clinic and their house, awesome)
ReplyDeleteOh and this dog is in congestive heart failure as an 8 month old, but the breeder's "vet" said it was just pneumonia and the owners should be looking for a new vet. Good genetic stock right here
I'm currently a vet student, and my best friend's family recently acquired a 10-month-old GSD from a breeder who is their family friend (and who is also like 80 years old). The breeder told them they shouldn't have the dog spayed until she is 18 months old, because doing it any sooner will "stunt her growth". It took far too much convincing, even from a vet student, to get them to spay the dog sooner, because the breeder MUST know what she's talking about since "she's been doing this for a really long time."
ReplyDeleteI've heard the same thing for horses. Ridiculous. I'm still fighting with my mum to get her horse snipped before he does any damage to her (seeing as he can't go out with any other horse).
Delete'Breeders' have been telling her that he will have no muscle if he's castrated before 3 years old; that he will have no personality; that he will be frail; that he will look ugly... But it's better to listen to strangers than it is to your own daughter armed with books and examples proving to the contrary.
I have a greyhound/boxer mix who recently developed major fireworks/thunderstorm phobia, so I was prepared for the "my dog is special" talk about my acepromazine double whammy, but luckily my vet beat me to it. Valium it is!
ReplyDeleteI have a question... I have heard that certain antibiotics are fatal to chickens/birds and that they don't cope well with anaesthesia. Is this true or a myth?
ReplyDeleteWe've had quite a few special needs clients. One that refused to let us use sedatives or analgesic on her cat because spotted tabbys are sensitive to those things and could die because her breeder said so.
ReplyDeleteOr recently, we had a lady who wanted use to save her dog's testicles as a reminder of his "big event." She was even taking pictures of her dog's testicles before the surgery so she could post it on facebook.
My fav is that Wheatens can't get Rabies, so they don't need the vacc..uh huh
ReplyDelete